Topic: The Pursuit of Happiness. (Read 2430 times)

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Jesus christ this thread is terrible. For the first half page it's Catslack covering/defending his mistake and nitpicking about Shepperds choice of words (that's pretty embarrassing man), Shepperd arguing with an guy who writes his posts in life-sophical emo-poetry (monoloque) (((have you adapted apathy to protect your ego or what man)))...


agaFSA()(() I AM NOT CONTENT WITH THE LEVEL OF THIS TOPIC.

FYI, i can tell you that i have just recently noticed that i feel much safer when under stress and threat rather than... well, you know, when in peace. In a state when it seems everything goes right for once.
I'm just like any little animal, always on my toes!  :fogetshh: *drinks beer with sheperd and frank zapa

What is my mistake?

EDIT: There were really only two points I was making, which are relevant to his post. The first is that I see problems with saying that it is preferable that life have ups and downs--especially when you are going to argue that you aren't suggesting it is ever preferable to desire unhappiness over happiness. Secondly, he argued that bland and boring aren't the same, and said he checked dictionary.com. I did as well since he brought that site up, and found boring under the synonyms for bland, and then he argued that synonymous doesn't mean have the same or very similar meaning, which it does. But he seemed to think that he had proven otherwise? I have no idea how.

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also Godot, you depict a very boring life.
A life of continuous happiness is a bland one.

But anyways, not arguing semantics and using his definitions. He seems to suggest a life of only happiness would be uninspiring or lacking substance but doesn't realize these are pretty irrelevant if you accept that you are already happy. The fact is that if you do feel your life is uninspiring or lacking any substance or that it is of little quality you aren't going to be happy, and if you are happy then you aren't going to hold that view.

He argues that it would 'drive him crazy' if he didn't have ups and downs, but the fact is that if it does 'drive him crazy' which I assume to mean some sort of emotionally distraught state then he is no longer happy and probably hasn't been genuinely happy the whole time which violates the idea of a life of pure happiness. No? But even ignoring that if it did 'drive him crazy' this would actually be a good thing in his view because it would create a low which, according to him, is necessary for his sanity. However, this doesn't make sense either! He needs to be insane to be sane? I mean....????

Also there is some argument in there that things come in cycles and therefore we shouldn't try to fight it because a) "it is natural" (not an argument) and b) it would be stressful or something not to. This doesn't make sense either because if you are stressed out always trying to be happy you are not happy and this, again, violates the first premise of being happy all the time.

So please enlighten me to my mistake, because I wasn't trying to cover it. I didn't know one existed.

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FYI, i can tell you that i have just recently noticed that i feel much safer when under stress and threat rather than... well, you know, when in peace. In a state when it seems everything goes right for once.

I'll also throw this in here because it's along the same idea: If you don't feel safe in peace it is not peace! You are pretty much create a scale with peace on one end and stress on the other and saying stress is preferable because it is more peaceful--or in your words you feel, "much safer" which I wouldn't have much of a problem equating a feeling of safety with a feeling of peace on some level. Don't you see the problem there?

And this can all pretty much be summed up by this:

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Someone who is truly happy is someone who would be content with himself. I don't think anyone here (or anyone period) is truly happy.
Happiness is like, this elusive, mysterious goal that no one can ever really reach. Its some sort of idealistic value that people occasionally touch without ever really reaching. I think that people who say they are happy here, either they really mean, "I'm not feeling depressed", which is hardly being "happy" at all. Either that, or they're deluded.

However lacking detail the explanation is I think it still holds up pretty well. It is very easy to equate happiness with contentment yet you people seem to be violating this constantly by explaining situations in which you are not content.

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That's the cool thing about happiness, it comes from time to time, not always as you try to promote. Like climaxes, like an orgasm. What's the cool thing about an orgasm if we were to be feeling it all the time? We gain tolerance, and then it becomes shitty.

Although I wouldn't call an orgasm happiness, and you don't SEEM to be doing it either, let's try the same example with happiness. If you become tolerant to happiness through some strange means, then you are no longer happy. It's not as though happiness is ruined because happiness is an emotion--one that you are no longer feeling. So happiness cannot become shitty. At most we can not be experiencing happiness. But happiness will always remain desirable.

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A life of continuous peace is also a bland one, but I'd try to hold on to innerstate peace. To deal conflict with a peaceful state of mind, that's a good way to find yourself at ease, but we definitively want conflicts, or at least challenges.
A life of conflicts, now that's quite an interesting life!

And even you basically admit that happiness is always preferable when you say you'd rather hold on to peace and to deal with a conflict in a peaceful state of mind. This is in opposition to your suggestions that one don't try to hold on to happiness and that it should 'come and go.' Isn't it? The life of conflicts is irrelevant if you actually are completely satisfied and happy. Can this actually be achieved? I don't know. Supposedly the Buddhas have achieved it in the past. However, we had already accepted the premise that the life in question is of happiness.

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Think Da Vinci or John Lennon or a table done by your carpinter friend given to you as a gift.

Trying to hold onto anything is pretty dangerous according to Buddhist doctrine. Even the work of Da Vinci, or Lennon, or your carpenter friend are going to fade and decay eventually. Thus any sort of attachment can lead to unhappiness. Which is interesting, then, because the only way to achieve happiness is to not be attached to happiness! Haha.
Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 03:23:41 pm by Catslacks
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Yes I can honestly say and mean it that I'm happy.
I have done a lot of inner work on this subject, that's all the arguments I feel the need for to give.
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what we want is lasting peace, and at the same time we can have happiness, and at the same time we can have sadness.
lasting happiness is the true delusion, you are not going to feel happy when your mother dies, when your best friend so young is dead,
you will be broken in two.  your happiness will become sadness.

But peace is what will keep you going, will keep you from questioning, will keep inner turmoil calm.  peace will open the doors to living.
I'm sorry I didn't illiterate that, I'm still learning as I go along, and I'm sorry to have caused frustration among others.
Don't strive towards happiness, strive towards collected calm, Peace.

To hear the truth of death for ears not ready, is deeply overwhelming.  I'm sorry to have spoken so plainly, as I had to come a long ways to arrive to that conclusion, it is my own conclusion, but as we all feel our own conclusions if we have them, are correct.  There could be more than one way to find Peace, I have found my own.

One of you mentioned meditation - in the branch I'm studying, Shambhala, the meditation practice is used to calm our minds, inorder to understand our thoughts, how we should seperate who we are from these thoughts - for if you look at them they truly are not us, they are reactions to feeling so insecure.  It's preparing and planting us in the present, and opening ourselves up to our emotions and our experience.  I have found happiness in the oddest things that I would not have before.  It's rooting out our fears to open ourselves up to others.  Eventually wisdom shapes itself, to a point of complete understanding, it like a stream of love and compassion that never stops, even in pain, but when all-knowing wisdom comes up - you don't seem to experience the emotional pain you had before, emotional pain that centered around the ego.  The pain you feel is deeply rooted in others suffering.  In that state it feels like it couldn't possibly end, eternal love and eternal wisdom.  I can say that this is there, it's a most wonderful feeling, to feel so genuinely caring, but even holding onto that can be its end, for it's self-defeating.  Your wisdom just becomes empty words then, rather than experiencing.

Peace is a calm understanding for all that happens in life, the good and the bad.  Happiness is felt and Sadness is felt, pain is present, more present than before, but happiness is sweeter on top and sadness is lightly whipped.  Strive towards peace please.
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:fogetnah: : "With my final breath, I used my remaining strength to transfer my soul into the body of a puppet. As the puppet Kururu, I befriended Cornet. Cornet never realized who I was, but we still became wonderful friends.

For every meeting, there is also a goodbye. Its because people part that new acquaintances can be made. Life might simply be about repeating that cycle over and over... And thus, once Cornet found true happiness, I left her side. People may have thought of my life as a happy one. They may have thought the opposite. Was I happy? I don't know, myself. But there's one thing I'm sure of : My life was satisfying.

There are both hardships and happiness in life. People feel happiness because there are hardships, and because of those hardships, people feel happiness. I want everyone to realize how precious happiness really is. Always and forever... And finally, I would like to express my deepest, deepest gratitude and say..."
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There is no such thing as Happiness.
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I think the reactions to that topic are sort of funny. I mean, people are asked, are you happy? and they answer, yeah.. I got a job and friends and I'm financially stable and healthy...
I mean, do you guys even believe yourselves when you say that? Do you truly think that these are the conditions to your happiness? That its all what being happy is about, like, not lacking of anything for your physical and mental health? Happiness is just "not having your basic needs frustrated"?
As far as human beings go, yes thats why most of us are happy. I guess the reason Im happy about such simple things is because I never really think twice about being sad, and I chose what makes me happy.
Im just making crap up as I type[like ][/like], but I do think happiness is kinda like setting milestones/goals in life. E.g. you set a goal for happiness, you reach that goal, you wallow in that happiness for as long as you need, then you set another goal for happiness. Sort of like, happiness is a choice, you know? Like instead of reaching for the big whammy of happiness, you just take what happiness you can get.
I dunno feel free to shoot me down
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>im checking the windows before i go to bed..
>>thatll do no good, im already in the house

Oh, that dog of mine!
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I'm.. somewhat happy I suppose, i'm not doing very well and school and i'm still trying to get over my ex but..
I dunno. It's an on and off thing.
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I'm not happy, I have nothing to make me happy atm. But that's what I see life as, a fight for the happyness. People get side tract and think that being content is being happy. Happyness isn't microwaving a cheese toasty while waiting for Friends to come on. Happyness is like achieving something cool, spending quality time with the person you love, Getting a Kaworu Nagisa mini statue etc etc.
But I ain't going to argue because the way I see it, the more people around who settle for uninspired lives, the more cool opportunities there are for me.
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I have found happiness by not being into anime anymore
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/
 
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dis is me:

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Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 04:40:16 pm by dangerousned
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I'm not happy. I think that this "pursuit of happiness" was some crazy marketing idea someone had to sell more products, and that happiness is just a consequence of being in the right place of the Universe and not something you can get by praying a lot and saying you're happy, maybe you can force yourself into thinking you're happy by doing this and buying all the toys you desire or playing baseball or being a famous actor and a millionaire, but that will not necessarily make you the happyest person that exists. Using drugs won't help either because all they do is messing up with the chemistry of that organ you call a brain.

You, an immortal creature trapped into a pile of worthless meat, cannot be happy just by pretending you are, the only way this can happen is if it just happens. So if anyone tells you YOU SHOULD BE MORE HAPPIER!! then that person is either lying or trying to sell you something.
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
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philosophers has it that happines is the final goal in life (unless you're something like catholic and then salvation is the ultimate goal)
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i dont think anyone who wants to see civilization consumed in a giant mushroom cloud is happy
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i am happy.  i have not accomplished everything i want to accomplish, but i know everything takes time and i can safely say that im doing everything i can to pursue goals etc.

shep was right.  words do not exist if they mean the exact same thing.  its all about diction and usual context/applicability.  even if you look em both up, its obvious.

You, an immortal creature trapped into a pile of worthless meat, cannot be happy just by pretending you are, the only way this can happen is if it just happens. So if anyone tells you YOU SHOULD BE MORE HAPPIER!! then that person is either lying or trying to sell you something.

that is not true man.  <self help book>happiness is largely a state of mind and is directly related to your attitude and approach to living.  evidence for this = everybody i know who seems verifiably happy has an assertive I CAN FIX IT attitude toward living accomplishment etc.  really, its the only attitude that makes sense.</self help book.> 
anyway i am not going to LONG RESPOND to that you so that will have to suffice!
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I was never meant to be happy, and probably never will be.

Such is the life of Vale.  :sad: