Games Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Read 771 times)

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christ maybe you people should pace yourself in games more.

maybe I'm a dick but who the fuck actually spends a whole day playing videogames...........


*posts on gw for like three hours*
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Actually the only game I can remember playing through in one sitting was KH, and that was just because me and a couple of friends were having a contest to see who could beat it first. I usually don't have the attention span or patience to play a game for longer than an hour or two at a time. Even ones I really like. :(
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If a democrat (particularly Clinton) takes over office the minimum wage is said to be raised from 5.85 an hour to 8-9 dollars an hour meaning the next next gen games will probably be even higher.

I'm surprised this didn't start a political discussion.  Anyway yeah unfortunately the market is built so that everyone spends every cent they make so games will be $10 more expensive next generation if the average poor person has an extra $10 to spend :(

Anyway I don't think games have gotten any shorter.  I almost feel like they've gotten longer or that the life of most games has been extended by features like achievements or mandatory multiplayer on 360 games and online gaming in general.
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I'm surprised this didn't start a political discussion.  Anyway yeah unfortunately the market is built so that everyone spends every cent they make so games will be $10 more expensive next generation if the average poor person has an extra $10 to spend :(

Anyway I don't think games have gotten any shorter.  I almost feel like they've gotten longer or that the life of most games has been extended by features like achievements or mandatory multiplayer on 360 games and online gaming in general.

Achievements is such fucking bullshit. It doesn't really make the game longer! There's not more gameplay because the game has achievements, ít's just a reason to repeat some bits of the gameplay a lot of times, it doesn't add more game to play. Stupid fluff.

And I wouldn't call it a feature.

And by the way from what I understood a big component of Panda's complaint was that the game was so short and had no multiplayer. Short games are excusable if they put time into their multiplayer mode but if the game has no multiplayer there's really no good excuse to make it short.
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I had the weekend off a couple years back, and I was over at my Dad's.  I blew through Resident Evil 0, 1, 2, 3, CV:X, and 4 (all on Gamecube) in a little over a day (15 hour marathon for 0,1,2,3,CV:X Total, another 5 or 6 for RE4)

I'd rather have a short game with a high level of replayability, than a long game I'm only going to play once.  Which Achievements, and unlockables do add to it.  But they should have some genuinely fun levels and stuff, or better yet, make the entire game worth replaying several times.

Perhaps, I'm just ranting.  But seriously,  I have so many games that lost their luster after I beat them a single time.  It's rediculous
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Achievements is such fucking bullshit. It doesn't really make the game longer! There's not more gameplay because the game has achievements, ít's just a reason to repeat some bits of the gameplay a lot of times, it doesn't add more game to play. Stupid fluff.

Achievements are a good thing because they force developers to give you something EXTRA instead of just ignoring it.  Uncharted is a good example.  It has unlockable stuff, but they add nothing to the game other than saying you got everything.  While gamescore means absolutely nothing, the achievements themselves are (generally) creative and take some skill to accomplish.  It's extra because it's there for you to do on the side. 

Like I said earlier, getting 70 stars (the bare minimum) in Mario 64 would take you 10 or 12 hours but finding all 120 doubles that time but if Nintendo forced you to get all 120 stars to fight Bowser I guarantee you more people would have gotten annoyed with the game quickly.  Artificially adding filler to the main story of a game is more annoying than creating achievements or side quests to lengthen it.  If you want to play through games that force you to backtrack and do random bullshit just so you can "wow this game is long" then good for you but I rather have multiplayer or unlockables to find than bog down a good story or ruin the pacing of a game just so I can justify spending 60$ on a hobby.
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thanks for the insight into the industry, buddy.  this actually isn't too valid a reason, i feel, because unless we're talking about totally new and unexplored areas, the models, textures, terrain, and all that jazz are already made.  take a game like assassin's creed, for example; it has you running around the same three major cities for the large majority of the game.  in what way would more content, and a wider variety of it, require them to spend much more time making new models and areas?  a lot of the time, the same visuals are reused in various areas, anyway, so even if they have to add one, i think it's somewhat rare that the area would need to be built from the ground up.  you can't really just come out and say "ya more content = much more money spent" when it honestly doesn't have to.

Yeah, they could just C+P most of the models and shit, but Assassin's Creed being repetitive and having graphics being reused a fuck ton was pretty much already a huge complaint against the game in most every review, so maybe that wasn't the best example you could of given, given that adding more development time to add new stuff + new areas + new content to the game would of greatly helped it, instead of reusing more stuff.

But even reusing stuff (reskinning models, in most cases) still takes time + money, and its wayyy more time + wayyyyy more money than it was back then.

(and since it seems now and days most devs don't want to spend big money on new things (its risky), these new things wind up being short experiences. GoW and the like are short tho, they are short experiences, but give you reply value in their difficulty modes/costumes/etc.)
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Achievements is such fucking bullshit.

Do you have a 360?  Because you probably wouldn't say that if you played 360 games.

Achievements are a great feature because it gives the developers a method to establish exactly what the cool things to do are.  When Lost Planet has an achievement for actually managing to kill the giant worm that runs away after three minutes and might otherwise leave you assuming that you can't kill it, it's a neat feature.  They tie very much into replayability because replaying a game to get its achievements usually involves high-level play and doing a lot of unusual things you wouldn't normally do.  They really do extend the life of the game.
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Yeah, they could just C+P most of the models and shit, but Assassin's Creed being repetitive and having graphics being reused a fuck ton was pretty much already a huge complaint against the game in most every review, so maybe that wasn't the best example you could of given, given that adding more development time to add new stuff + new areas + new content to the game would of greatly helped it, instead of reusing more stuff.

But even reusing stuff (reskinning models, in most cases) still takes time + money, and its wayyy more time + wayyyyy more money than it was back then.

(and since it seems now and days most devs don't want to spend big money on new things (its risky), these new things wind up being short experiences. GoW and the like are short tho, they are short experiences, but give you reply value in their difficulty modes/costumes/etc.)
I actually had no problem whatsoever with the graphics being reused.  The cities are full of people; it'd be retarded to honestly expect them to have a level of variety substantially above what they already did.  However, working more types of missions and a larger range of content into the game, while taking some time, wouldn't really require original graphics.  In fact, this is precisely why I cited Assassin's Creed to begin with.  It's an example of a game with a dire lack of content variety that, without much trouble, could've had much more, with virtually no need to implement new environments or models at all, because the other missions would take place in the same area that the rest of the game does.  Would this take more time?  Certainly, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as time consuming as building completely new cities and models from the ground up would, as you seem to be implying is necessary (it's not).  Repetitive gameplay and standardized visuals aren't necessarily related.

Also, not too sure I agree that it's wayyyyyyyyyyyy more time and money to... what?  Code an event?  I know absolutely nothing about programming, so I could easily just be missing something about the development process, but the most significant difference between console generations are the visuals.  Assuming you're just reusing them, why is programming an event on the Xbox 360 wayyyyyyyyyyy more time-consuming and expensive than it was on the Xbox, exactly?  What about the fundamental differences between the languages the development kits use would make, assuming you already had the visuals made and ready to go from other parts of your game, the coding of content that much longer and more expensive of a process?

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Like I said earlier, getting 70 stars (the bare minimum) in Mario 64 would take you 10 or 12 hours but finding all 120 doubles that time but if Nintendo forced you to get all 120 stars to fight Bowser I guarantee you more people would have gotten annoyed with the game quickly.  Artificially adding filler to the main story of a game is more annoying than creating achievements or side quests to lengthen it.  If you want to play through games that force you to backtrack and do random bullshit just so you can "wow this game is long" then good for you but I rather have multiplayer or unlockables to find than bog down a good story or ruin the pacing of a game just so I can justify spending 60$ on a hobby.
Marcus, are you really this stupid?  Where did anyone say anything even close to "NOT ENOUGH FILLER."  The problem is NOT ENOUGH CONTENT.  It's like you have this victimized perspective of gaming that makes you seriously believe that if a game isn't incredibly short, it needs to be 50% filler.  Filler does not equate with legitimate content, but on the other hand, neither do fucking ACHIEVEMENTS are you kidding me.  Do you idiots really think MORE COSTUMES YESS ANOTHER REASON TO PLAY is an acceptable replacement for actual content?  Side quests are okay in premise, but most of the time they themselves are just another form of filler, and even worse because there's not even a pretense of pertinence to the main story.  Basically, I'm saying you seem to have this awful misconception that a game that lacks content and is too brief and rushed because anything longer would be too expensive would have it's good [bad] story and [rushed] pacing "bogged down" by the presence of more content.  I think you're missing the fact that I'm saying length ties in with content (not unlocking costumes, sorry), not just being long for the sake of being long.

This is exactly why I'm sort of disappointed in this generation.  No one seems to mind the adverse effect it has on virtually all games.  Someone JUST SAID that developers are even more unwilling than ever to take risks because of the exorbitant costs that making a game for a modern console entails, and that as a result most of the games they do make (even relatively safe ones; you can hardly call Gears of War an adventurous title) are on the short side.  No one wants to sink time into designing an acceptable amount of content because it's so ridiculously expensive that they just can't justify the risk, so what we get are more expensive games with less content because hey, this shit's expensive!  Great, thanks, this is totally worth seeing Altair's cape flow so fluidly while he runs across buildings.  When the graphic capabilities of your console become so expensive that they begin to seriously limit what developers can do in terms of content and length with their games, you've got a problem.
Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 06:33:29 am by bazookatooth
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Also, not too sure I agree that it's wayyyyyyyyyyyy more time and money to... what?  Code an event?  I know absolutely nothing about programming, so I could easily just be missing something about the development process, but the most significant difference between console generations are the visuals.  Assuming you're just reusing them, why is programming an event on the Xbox 360 wayyyyyyyyyyy more time-consuming and expensive than it was on the Xbox, exactly?  What about the fundamental differences between the languages the development kits use would make, assuming you already had the visuals made and ready to go from other parts of your game, the coding of content that much longer and more expensive of a process?

Nah dude, I meant reskinning a model.

You have a model, and then you have a skin, which is basically the textures applied to said model. Even if you're reusing an already made model, it still takes a ton of time + money to create the graphics to reskin said model, unless if you're reusing a fuck ton of textures to (man, Guild Wars did this in the expansion EOTN, and it was just awful.)
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Okay, but AC definitely already reused both textures and models to a pretty heavy degree.  Not only did all guards basically look the same, but there were only like five to ten basic types of people.  Not really seeing how that applies here!  Also, in a platformer-type game, where there are usually basic archetypes of enemies, it probably wouldn't pose much of a problem either.  And in a lot of these cases, I feel like more creativity during level design would've lead to players having more shit to do, and not just in a "okay, backtrack and get this cog to open this door" type of way.  I don't understand how what would amount to, in many cases, ADDING MORE GENERIC GOONS would really require much more effort on the part of the people in charge of making visuals.  I sincerely doubt that what I'm talking about would mean they'd have to build a ton of shit (models, textures, whatever) from scratch.