I don't get why people can't just play the game the way they want to and let everyone else do the same.  I don't get why people are bothered by people who like to play competitively. 

If you want to ignore tiers and just have fun playing with your friends, THAT'S FINE!  Nobody's holding it against you.  BUT, don't go criticizing those who like to analyze the game closely and figure out which characters have the most potential.  So what if they enjoy playing the game in a different way than you?  It's not like they're demanding you conform to their ways...

I don't get why people can't just play the game the way they want to and let everyone else do the same.  I don't get why people are bothered by people who like to play competitively.

People aren't bothered by people who play competitively, people are bothered who play competitively while simultaneously acting like he or she is better than everyone. 

I know Moriason is gonna get on my back for this but you're the fucking definition of scrub.

When did this "scrub" bull shit start anyway? What happened to calling people a "noob"? "Noob" sounds slightly less retarded, at the very least.

People aren't bothered by people who play competitively, people are bothered who play competitively while simultaneously acting like he or she is better than everyone. 

See, thing is, I didn't even do that until he started being a fucking idiot, and even then I just said that he's a shitty player with a stupid mentality, not that everyone else is. Hell, I get trashed by quite a few here on a regular basis, and I can barely beat some of my friends who come over to play (a friend of mine constantly 4 stocks me with Olimar against both my Pit and my Lucario), so I'm not putting myself on a pedestal.

When did this "scrub" bull shit start anyway? What happened to calling people a "noob"? "Noob" sounds slightly less retarded, at the very least.

1992, term from the old days of SF2 and the beginning of competitive gaming. The term is different from newbie/noob in that it points out a flaw in the way of thinking that someone has (ie: has to have "honor", doesn't "cheat", etc (ex: throwing 20 fireballs in a row in SF2 is somehow taboo to them, and so is throwing more than once and not letting the other guy throw you)). The meaning of the term changed a bit in recent years as even some non-competitive players don't whine anymore about some basic bullshit so it's more used towards people who have a total aversion to the competitive mindset (jman).

I support the TR4Q campaign...

Tiers don't really bug me b/c I do my best to be really awesome with every character.  I don't like people who act all high and mighty using certain characters just b/c they're higher tier, but I don't meet people like that very often.  And when I do, nothing's more satisfying than showing them why tiers don't win matches.

Whatever the case may be, no one's stopping anybody from playing the way they want, so I'll just encourage openmindedness from the sidelines.

I support the TR4Q campaign...And when I do, nothing's more satisfying than showing them why tiers don't win matches.

See, the thing I'm trying to say here is that they do exist and they do win matches (not all by themselves, someone new to the game won't be winning matches left and right against everyone just because he's using Wolf or Marth and his opponents are only using Mario and Yoshi, there's more subtlety to it).

The way tiers work is that they're a general observation of the efforts you've got to put in in order to win, combined with all the options open at a character's disposal (combos, defensive options, maneuverability, killing power and a bunch of other shit). It's not really a "you shouldn't play with X" list and more of a "X has an advantage over the rest of the cast because he can do Y to Z while others can't". It's a simple concept really and tho it shouldn't really dictate who you pick (personal taste and playstyle plays a bigger part in this), it does point out who's more likely to win matches at a high level of play. Also, you got to realize that tiers are only viable under a set environment, in Smash's case being mostly stock mode and no items (along with a few levels being banned due to sheer awkwardness of design, tho 25 of the 41 stages are available, which means only 16 stages are banned and most are levels that nobody cares about (75m, New Pork City, Mario Bros., Big Blue and such)).

Taj is a pretty good example of a good Smash player who sticks to low tiers mostly (his real main being Mewtwo), but who realizes that tiers are still there. He plays most tournaments as his main, mostly focusing on confusing opponents with Mewtwo's awkwardness as well as their unfamiliarity with the character since he's widely agreed to be the second worst character in Melee (due to his awful killing power, bad speed and slow recovery which allows for specific combos to only work on him), but when he gets to the final 8, he suddenly changes tactics and sticks to Marth and Fox. And why does he do that? Because Taj realizes that at the level he's at, if he wants to have a better chance at winning, he needs to do everything in his power to put those chances on his side, and that means dropping Mewtwo for a character who doesn't need to work as hard to get to the same result as the other characters. He'll still stick to his favorite most of the time, but he will switch to something with a bit more "oomph" behind it when he needs to.

here's an idea, no one at GW cares about tiers, Raziel shut up.

can't believe I get banned for pointing out GW jerks off over the game but Raziel is allowed to post shit post after shit post about how he and HIS COMPETITIVE GAMER FRIENDS are playing the game the real way because they turn everything off and pay attention to stupid fucking stats while insulting people playing the game because they like to play.

this is disgusting, you should be ashamed.

Yeah, because I totally did that and didn't explain why the things I'm talking about aren't magical fairy land bullshit that I'm making up just to feel like I've got a bigger e-dick than everyone else. And see, the thing is I didn't even say people should play one way or another, I have no idea where you're getting that. The only person I've insulted here was jman, after provocation over a stupid comment I made that wasn't intended as an insult. I'm not telling anyone they're right or wrong about anything else than that tiers don't/shouldn't exist and that even if they don't care about them, they're still there. Hell, I didn't even say I'm better than anyone in this thread and only implied once that jman was a retard.

And disgusting? Ashamed?  Seriously man, this shit is pretty tame to half the shit you did or still do. I got warned and I turned the flames down and instead described in a reasonable manner what tiers are and how they're applied to the game's concept so that people can understand what I'm talking about. If you think that's telling how a game should be played, you're seriously more of a retard than I thought you were.

That was interesting info, I didn't know that stuff before.  It makes more sense to me now, but it would help if people who took tiers very seriously weren't jerks about it.  And this is not to suggest you're one of those people, or that all people who take tiers seriously are jerks.  If anything, you've been very reasonable in explaining them, so you're a-okay by me.

=O =O since when did ness hit the "Low tier"

Ness fucking owns man. Hes the highest tier, all by himself. Hes like a smash god.

Edit- Oh and I agree people are to competitive over smash. I just hate when people diss my boy ness. 


Also Tiers are stupid IMO

Yeah what the hell happened? I didn't see Raziel do anything wrong at first, really. That comment wasn't insulting. I use G&W, Olimar (dunno what tier he is), and like Wario (same) and stuff, and I'm not offended when people point out those guys are mostly the weird ones.

Guys, come on, keep it nice. We all know Yoshi's a queer anyway.

Anyway, Raziel, do you know if anyone's started formulating a tier list yet? I know if they did, it couldn't be too accurate what with the game only being out for a relatively short time, but...

There's a few, but they're still very much in debate about what will constitute to top and middle of the lists. Most agrees that Olimar, Metaknight, Wolf and Marth are probably the best in the game (some replacing Olimar for Pit or Sheik), but the only things established so far is that Jigglypuff, Mario and Yoshi constitute the bottom of the bottom due to the heavy nerfs they've gotten until something very drastic about them is discovered (probably not gonna happen in Jigglypuff's case as she lost three of the things that made her shine in Melee, which was her high KO sleep move, 0% death combos and wall of pain approach).

It's kind of funny how you conveniently ignore his post right before the one you quoted where he pretty much called me a faggot for saying tiers exist and how he is putting HIMSELF on a pedestal going HMPH... TIERS... THEIR FOR FAGGOTS.. I CAN BEAT ANYONE WITHOUT TIERS EVER.......

Seriously man, I only reacted the way I did after being provoked. Hell, I'll even quote his post for you since you seem to be able to ignore things entirely!

Well, I could care less about tiers, in fact here is a little thing known as "TR4Q" "TIERS R 4 QUEERS" I don't give a crap who is bottom or top tier, I use whatever character I like, deal with it, and happy smashing.

When players like myself like to use Yoshi, Mario etc, and there are people like you who use the higher "tiers" like Falco, and Marth and says teir, I yell TR4Q the great motto and bash you on the head with the Wiimote, the Nunchucks, the Gamecube Controller, stab you in the eye with the game cube controller battery, for more information watch Smash Kingdom Melee on Newgrounds, and you'll understand and I totally agree with this little statement.

EDIT: Sorry I had to do that, its just I really fucking hate the whole tiers thng, all it just shows that it makes me not want to play Smash anymore, when people just constantly use those repetitive characters like nuts... it gets really annoying, but the plus side is that I get to humiliate those who are too reliant on information instead of just playing the game, and use people like Marth, and all them with characters like Yoshi, Game and Watch and Mario.

Yeah it's pretty much HEH... TIERS ARE FOR FAGS... the whole time through while the only things I said before those comments was that he did use low tiers (and in a non-insulting way). So yeah, I suggest you read posts in order from now on man because your views are pretty fucking skewed.

Hell, here's my response to his "Oh you're a jerkwad!!" post:

It's true tho Falcon, D3, Yoshi and Mario are all contenders for the bottom of the barrel, while the others won't probably hit the middle of the mid tier from how they've been performing. Mario and Yoshi got nerfed to hell, moreso than any other characters in the game.

WOW IM SUCH AN ASSHOLE.

-.- The only reason why I called you a dick because you based them on tiers... and then I had to mention TR4Q... then it turned into a flame war, seriously though, lets drop it continue the tournament, and have fun.

I still say tiers suck, it ruins fun for everyone, so just deal with it, and drop it alright? Not to add insult to injury, but from your responsive posts, you're acting more like a child, deal with it, we're in a forum, and everyone is open to opinions, and everything I said, I meant, so mneh. Happy Smashing.

Fuck this gay argument and let's talk about the game.

So I have been playing SSBB after getting a tv which can play it, and it's awesome so far. The single player game is a bit dull as expected, but it has some cool stuff too which is nice. I have tried out most of the characters, my favorite being Lucario right now. At first I didn't like him (or it) too much but after playing with him for some time, I'm starting to get hang of him. The concept of dealing more damage the higher your damage goes is interesting and he's got speed and range, which I like. I also like his counter a lot and I'm still not too good with the timing (and I bet good players know how to avoid it usually) but it's fun to pull it off. I also love his projectile and aerial moves, especially down and A. Other than that, I have been playing with Pit, Ike and Luigi the most, all fun characters. Wario is fun too, but I think I think I'll try to focus on those other characters more for now, though I'm still going to play with every character more since I really haven't played that much yet.

Where can I see my friend code by the way?

Your friend code can be found the first time you connect to WFC, and by your name on your friend list after that.

I'm just curious about something, has anyone had lagless games?
Even when playing against christophomicus who lives no more than 3 miles from my house we got HUGE input lag, where we'd press jump but it wouldn't happen until like a second later.

Now I know we both have fast connections; or rather they are fast enough to handle brawl so I'm curious as to why this is, and is it likely to get worse when I play people from other countries like everyone on GW?

Anyway on the other note, good games christo, shame we couldn't do what we wanted to do with much ease but... it was still good.