What is really sad about this is that many Fallout fans have decided to hate this game ahead of time.  Even if it *is* exactly what fans have wanted, they will all change their opinions the second they play it.  It's more important to be upset than it is to have fun I guess!

a large part of the reason people like fallout is because of the character depth (idk if this is the right term, because there really wasn't that much depth!) and dialogue. the characters were pretty fun to talk to, but even more than that, they were worth talking to! every character added something to the game and atmosphere that made them enjoyable. i have played all four elder scrolls games and aside from that crazy elf in oblivion, bethesda has never made a memorable character, or even a character that was anything more than a receptacle for quests. i don't give a shit about the isometic battle system and i doubt that anyone who really got fallout cares about it either (i think first/third person could be pretty cool actually). what i'm skeptical about is bethesda's ability to make enjoyable characters and dialogue, because they have failed in every previous attempt. i'm still going to check it out, but i am not as enthusiastic about it as i would like to be!

also the head developer or whatever said this was oblivion with guns and i think oblivion was a pretty terrible game.

a large part of the reason people like fallout is because of the character depth (idk if this is the right term, because there really wasn't that much depth!) and dialogue. the characters were pretty fun to talk to, but even more than that, they were worth talking to! every character added something to the game and atmosphere that made them enjoyable. i have played all four elder scrolls games and aside from that crazy elf in oblivion, bethesda has never made a memorable character, or even a character that was anything more than a receptacle for quests. i don't give a shit about the isometic battle system and i doubt that anyone who really got fallout cares about it either (i think first/third person could be pretty cool actually). what i'm skeptical about is bethesda's ability to make enjoyable characters and dialogue, because they have failed in every previous attempt. i'm still going to check it out, but i am not as enthusiastic about it as i would like to be!

also the head developer or whatever said this was oblivion with guns and i think oblivion was a pretty terrible game.

Yeah seriously man I totally agree that the characters in Oblivion were incredibly half-baked and terrible.  The game was so cookie-cutter that I almost wonder if the entire game was a joke but I suspect video games are not as self-aware as films and novels are.  The expansion had a few slightly more memorable characters but the characterization was certainly slim there too.  Morrowind did somewhat well with at least one or two characters whose names and roles in the story I can remember.

I don't know though I'm confident that Bathesda is as capable of employing competent writers as Black Isle and Interplay were so I am not particularly worried.  Part of what drug down Oblivion's characterization was that there was a conscious decision on the part of the developers to make an outrageously generic game.  I thought it was pretty fun but it certainly didn't have any personality!  Elder Scrolls is specifically *about* being lame and uninteresting after all.  If the same writing staff is instructed to write in a consciously creative way, maybe they will be more successful.

man when i think about the potential a game like oblivion has. i was playing it a little earlier and you find yourself attributing personalities to the npcs walking about based on like an inflection they make in some word because there is really cool stuff wanting to happen in these conversations but yeah the game is so generic most of the time it is really frustrating.

i think a lot of the enjoyment i get from these games is out of my own imagination, not actually what is in the games. maybe fallout 3 will be better in this way, i hope so. i'm gonna get it pretty much definitely, unless i hear really really bad things.

Is this for real?  Because holy crap man I am pretty sure I would actually buy that for the $30 premium or whatever.

Yes, it is real.  GameStop has it up for preorder and a tentative release date of Oct 7.  It comes with a 100 page hardcover art book in the original Fallout style (the original Fallout manual was one of the best manuals ever conceived) and it comes with a 6" vaultboy bobblehead for 80 simoleans.

Yes, it is real.  GameStop has it up for preorder and a tentative release date of Oct 7.  It comes with a 100 page hardcover art book in the original Fallout style (the original Fallout manual was one of the best manuals ever conceived) and it comes with a 6" vaultboy bobblehead for 80 simoleans.

I never got a manual with Fallout because I got into the games once the double pack was available for $10.  It's a bummer that the manual was really cool and I missed out

Boy I hope the pre-order bundle is available in Canada because I most certainly want that lunchbox.

I never got a manual with Fallout because I got into the games once the double pack was available for $10.  It's a bummer that the manual was really cool and I missed out

Aside from telling you how to play the game it had in depth back history, gave you a worse case scenario style survival guide, and had a bunch of Red Scare style propaganda and advertisements for the Vault.  The manual was designed like a survival guide and read like something Mel Brooks or Terry Gilliam would have wrote.  It was awesome and game packaging has gone so down hill after 2000 when PC games started coming in dinky mini-boxes where the cd's would be packaged in crappy paper sleeves with a pdf manual.  Blech.

Aside from telling you how to play the game it had in depth back history, gave you a worse case scenario style survival guide, and had a bunch of Red Scare style propaganda and advertisements for the Vault.  The manual was designed like a survival guide and read like something Mel Brooks or Terry Gilliam would have wrote.  It was awesome and game packaging has gone so down hill after 2000 when PC games started coming in dinky mini-boxes where the cd's would be packaged in crappy paper sleeves with a pdf manual.  Blech.

That's a pretty awesome manual.  The writing is not actually that great but the attitude is there and it's certainly unique.

Most newer PC games have spindles in the box but yeah it's really a bummer when you buy Neverwinter Nights 2 and it comes in a cardboard box with the game in a paper sleeve.  Usually it's no problem to swap PC games but when I make the terrible mistake of playing NW2 it takes way longer than it should (a full minute!) to get the box open and the game in its sleeve.

Oh I am so excited for this game!

I love Oblivion and love the atmosphere and story of Fallout so it'll be really neat to see how it all comes together.

Also that limited edition looks great but we don't have any Gamespot's around here so I think I'm out of luck.