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Topic: Women in Vidya Gayms... (Read 2714 times)

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Rone Rivendale

#21 May 15, 2008, 04:37:38 pm

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Ashe's skirt might be uber short but her boots go up past her knees so it's not like there is alot showing.

Reading this made me think of my own rm2k3 game Dungeon Dwellers. I have 3 females in the 8 character cast but none of them are very strong on their own personality wise. One is a coward who joins up with Angel (a guy) for the purpose of becoming rich. The other 2 are twins are fall in love with Ace and follow him around like lost puppies. And the whole reason that Jack is fighting is to avenge his fiancee who was killed by the final boss of the game.

I guess amatuer game makers aren't immune to this either.

Peace and Love

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maladroithim

#22 May 15, 2008, 04:42:21 pm

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Quote from: Rone Rivendale on May 15, 2008, 04:37:38 pm

The other 2 are twins are fall in love with Ace and follow him around like lost puppies.

I guess amatuer game makers aren't immune to this either.

Wish fulfillment.

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Vellfire

#23 May 15, 2008, 04:43:39 pm

TV people want to leave
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Quote from: Rone Rivendale on May 15, 2008, 04:37:38 pm

Ashe's skirt might be uber short but her boots go up past her knees so it's not like there is alot showing.

Yeah her boots are definitely coving her vagina, that's for sure.

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Marcus

#24 May 15, 2008, 04:49:49 pm

THE FAT ONE
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Quote

but i still think a lot of it's just this innate compulsion to throw any woman at all in a skimpy outfit, whether they're supposed to be a serious character or not. FOR EXAMPLE: http://www.ashelia.com/Ashe_aka_Ashelia_Princess.jpg

I blame the Sword and Sorcery movement of the 50s on bikini armor and it is probably one of my largest pet peeves in character design. A full plate for a man covers his entire body and comes with a ridiculously huge helmet while full plate for a woman is a metal bra and leggings (yet she still retains the full bonuses). FF12's Vierra race nearly made me cringe; Ashe was pretty bad (she wears a red bikini bottom you can see up it on hills) but the Vierra is an entire race of bunny girls that wear thongs and some of the thongs have rabbit tales.

Fuck.

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Oh hell, I can't believe I forgot the Metal Gear Girls!
They were sexy, like in their own ways, but felt more like people than sex objects. Unfortunately, this was trapped inside Metal Gear, which is sexual and obsurd... So... Yup.

Then that perv adds things like SnakeEye movies of japanese models, showing off Meryl in the gitch, and potential conversations with Otacon about Sniper Wolf, or Olga (if you crawl on top of her). It's such a perverted series, come to think of it. Lest I mention Metal Gear ACID 2 where Venus' standing still animation includes her lifting one toe and half-hopping so her mammoth breasts flop about.
CURSES! Foiled my own argument.

I knew someone was going to bring up Metal Gear because this sparked an entirely different conversation with my buddy. We agreed that The Boss was pretty damn cool for a villain (female or not) but Hideo Kojima's females are just like everyone else but they carry guns and fight so most people don't notice. He believes in this really strong matriarchal view of his women and no matter how mean or badass they are they have a "heart of gold" because apparently all women are nice unless they're pms'ing:

Sniper Wolf: adopted a bunch of wolves and showed Otacon how to take care of them like children
Olga: Gave birth while in the army and passed her motherly duties onto Raiden
The Boss: Gave birth on the battlefield which changed her opinion about war but ultimately stayed faithful to her country and died anyway
Rosemary: Her AI construct develops feelings for Raiden then the real Rosemary gets pregnant with his kid
Fortune: Leader of Dead Cell and called "The Queen" eventually helps Raiden before dying
Emma: Completely estranged from her step-brother after he has an affair with her mother which leads to the death of her father but she forgives him in her dying breath anyway!
Mei Ling: Provides moral support and is the smartest and cutest peppy asian college girl at MIT

I could go on but I don't feel like it. Kojima isn't as insufferable as other writers but you can always expect his women to be super tender and sweet even though they might steal nukes or kill a dozen dudes with their razor blade heat-seeking earrings or super demon glare of death or whatever the fuck Kojima adds on to his villains to make them otherworldly and cool.

Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 04:53:21 pm by angry black man

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theHunter

#25 May 15, 2008, 04:52:05 pm

Guild Wars Vet.
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Nariko was pretty badass... but she died...

Yay! Random words!

"Hey don't hotlink images for your avatar. Upload it in GW Uploader or imageshack or something"

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Marcus

#26 May 15, 2008, 05:19:03 pm

THE FAT ONE
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The World Ends With You (what's her face on the right is 15 fapfapfapfapfap)

Speaking of this game and what's her tits standing next to Neku, I seriously cannot look at her character without ogling her hips because of that low-rider skirt that pretty much shows off the entire lower part of her pelvis 15 YEARS OLD

Etna, the 12[00] year old demon babe.

Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 05:22:02 pm by angry black man

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otomon

#27 May 15, 2008, 05:42:42 pm

if i had ur face for an ass id b ashamed to shit
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Quote from: angry black man on May 15, 2008, 05:19:03 pm

The World Ends With You (what's her face on the right is 15 fapfapfapfapfap)

Speaking of this game and what's her tits standing next to Neku, I seriously cannot look at her character without ogling her hips because of that low-rider skirt that pretty much shows off the entire lower part of her pelvis 15 YEARS OLD

Etna, the 12[00] year old demon babe.

We need more games with hot chickx as long as they keep making them Ill keep buying them, to be honest most of the games I bought,I bought them cause they had a hot chick in them *fapfapfap*.. btw Shiki reminds me of Kairi

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Supra Mairo

#28 May 15, 2008, 05:59:45 pm

[Utada Hikaru <3]
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Legacy of Kain has a really well written cast and OH WAIT THERE ISN'T A SINGLE WOMAN IN THE SERIES.

is there?

Ariel, but shes a dead tutorial/folklore character so pretty useless there, but I suppose she has her place in the start of the plotline.

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maladroithim

#29 May 15, 2008, 06:09:32 pm

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Quote from: Supra Mairo on May 15, 2008, 05:59:45 pm

Legacy of Kain has a really well written cast and OH WAIT THERE ISN'T A SINGLE WOMAN IN THE SERIES.

is there?

Ariel, but shes a dead tutorial/folklore character so pretty useless there, but I suppose she has her place in the start of the plotline.

Holy crap you might be right. I think one or two minor characters like the boss vampires in the original were female.

Also Raziel is kind of a whiny bitch.

Also the writing is the best part of that series because the games aren't very fun (except the first two).

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Bravo

#30 May 15, 2008, 06:10:28 pm

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Quote from: Velfarre on May 15, 2008, 03:06:57 pm

I'm trying my hardest to think of a legit female character and I'm not coming up with much

What about that female lead in The Longest Journey? I haven't played Dreamfall and only had 10 minutes with the first but I can't see either female lead being a badly portrayed character.

Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 06:18:01 pm by BravoSector

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Ghost_Aspergers

#31 May 15, 2008, 06:12:57 pm

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Quote from: angry black man on May 15, 2008, 04:49:49 pm

I blame the Sword and Sorcery movement of the 50s on bikini armor and it is probably one of my largest pet peeves in character design...

Actually, Frank Frazetta, who started and dominated this "movement", drew his women completely naked (while his men wheren't far from it).

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thecatamites

#32 May 15, 2008, 06:33:19 pm

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I agree that the whole 'women in games' thing needs to evolve beyond just eyecandy and shallow characterisation, but what people forget is that evolution only occurs when there's a need for it to occur. So unless there's a huge backlash against the oversexualisation of women in games, or a massive call for more well-rounded female characters, then I don't think there'll be any real change. Game companies would rather stick to an established template than take the risk of changing something and possibly alienating players.

I don't think it's just a gaming problem either, since it's pretty common to TV, movies and books too. Sure, it's more obvious in games, but that's just because they're mostly designed to appeal to a demographic of the kind of people who jack off to 'chainsaw guns' and shit like that so good writing is less of a priority. So, yeah, don't expect game companies to suddenly buck the trend and start writing nuanced, deep characters... I think that if any change is going to come it'll probably begin with other media and just seep into games gradually.

PS. I thought this http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3137700 was interesting... It's about how market research shows women actually prefer to play as scantily-clad, big-titted characters rather than more realistic ones because the former are more "empowering". Probably bullshit, but maybe worth a look.

http://harmonyzone.org

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Leric

#33 May 15, 2008, 06:35:23 pm

This sprite was made by my best friend Max: 1985-2004 I'll never forget you man.
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People have told me that I'm pretty good at making female characters I'm not really so sure about that though. Although looking back at it now a large majority of my games have starred women/girls but really that's just because imo female lead characters are more flexible personality and situationally wise than male characters. With female characters the only society set personally limits you have are those you yourself set on them. Like for example if you had a male lead who acts very "girly" and likes to do things society has themed "for girls" then I don't think he'd appeal to many gamers, on the other hand if you have a female character who has a very tomboyish attitude and has boyish mannerisms then no one will have any problem with it. What this means is that with females you have more room to make complex characters who don't fit the usual stereotypes simply because you have the freedom to make this character act anyway you want.

Most developers don't realize the freedom that female leads give you. As most developers are male they tend to write female characters from either their female fantasies or how they've seen them portrayed in the works of others. This leads to the mega hootered bimbos and ditzy idiots you see in most games.

And I'm not saying that all females in games shouldn't be sexy, it's a known fact that some people are hot and some people have large mellony chests and some people are idiots and if all games suddenly stopped featuring mega hootered bimbos then a year from now you'd see a topic on here about how there are no girls with big knockers in videogames. I just think that flat chested or not characters should be written more realistically. Like for example say you were a female martial arts master who just so happens to have a 36EE bust line. If you entered a worlds greatest figher tournament would you wear a string bikini whos only hope of staying on is the fact that it's much too tight to slip down as long as you stand completely still? Someone else already said it and I have to agree with them but game designers should really take a look at how some modern hollywood movies handle female characters usually they're hot but they're still just a deep as anyone else in the movie.

But I think the main reason most developers do this is because sex sells, especially to teenage boys and Japanese salarymen which are there target audience.

Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 07:01:34 pm by Leric

Demo Blog

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Bonehead

#34 May 15, 2008, 06:51:50 pm

I am what you want to be
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Sex Sells, especially to nerds who don't get much of it. Another thing that sells is big cars.

But yeah, unless the whole mankind and media changes over night, you won't see this changing anytime soon.

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jars

#35 May 15, 2008, 06:57:31 pm

Fear not the psycho ;)
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I like to think that males are generally driven by testosterone for the most part in games... this is this sudden recklessness that makes the hero make mistakes, if a female character was to be the main hero (and wouldn't be some uber super giga chick but just someone regular) chances are she might just think it through and solve the problem at first (which results in no game at all) or simply stop to bother about it... lol... ok sorry, I do realize this was a stereotypical comment, do not worry.

Trully though, I think Leric has a point. Writers write characters from their fantasies. Obviously, one could write about how handsome a man is, but they could also write about their cunning (Ulysse) their strength (Hercules) their courage (David) etc etc etc... but for some reason, the only (or strongest) fantasy men have ever felt for women was pure lust or feelings of the same kind. Therefore, its easy to make a thousand different men in a game with different attributes that you look at, but it is much harder to give women something else than looks OR MEN's derived qualities (in case you didn't notice, Lara Croft is probably just about a man transposed into a woman, there wasn't much work involved, she's basically G.I. Jane with big tits).
I won't generalize here, but a part of women can be softer 'creatures' and can appeal to emotions and whatnot (sissy characters who don't seem to fit in the game so obviously we need to link them up to the hero, and since we can't make them important by what they bring to the hero, let's just make them fall for him... wow... this is basically saying that the girl is pointless and can't live her own life for herself).

It is a good thing you note that fact though, because in some games, it just went way too far, as if its a universal fact that we need to accept... Best example on top of my head? Dark Messiah. First time you get to see the villainous girl, she's already a whore... how about the 'good' girl? she's in love within the first hour, and at the first skirmish she moans like a lil bitch whose affraid her sugardaddy will perish, I mean cmon!. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose girlfriend has the nerves to temper down once in a while with a cold 'stfu'. They are just looking for the perfect slut or the perfect softhearted chick whose patience is more than a single woman could ever handle without turning insane.

EDIT:
ROFL LMAO OMFG nice video ;)

~Angel's Earth!!!~
Freelancer writers and dialogue editors required...
ONCE AND FOR ALL. I am NOT an english-speaking native. Bear that in mind.

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thecatamites

#36 May 15, 2008, 07:46:09 pm

clockamite
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Quote from: radio_raheem on May 15, 2008, 07:00:48 pm

there's no way that this problem is as big in other forms of entertainment as it is video games. I mean yeah there are plenty of dumb and unrealistic female characters on TV and movies and whatever, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as with video games where nearly all female characters are underage and have DDD breasts and wear nothing but lingerie.

Yeah, but it's just that with movies or whatever then you get good stuff to balance out the dross most of the time, so the shit like Charlie's Angels or whatever is still there but it's just not as obvious. So games are definitely the worst, but they're hardly the only ones guilty of it.

Quote

well yeah there isn't an absolute necessity for this evolution to occur but if the game industry wants to be taken seriously and draw in more females and not look like its some gross nerdy thing that caters entirely to fat sweaty virgins then they should definitely at least try. I'm not asking for any feminist simulator games but least try to reach the level movies and TV have attained where female characters don't walk around exclusively in hooker outfits and look like porn stars.

It doesn't have to be taken seriously, though, because they'll make a truckload of money anyway. I mean, stuff like the Dynasty Warriors games fly off the shelves despite the fact that they're the same shit over and over. The only way they'll change their formula is if people stop buying their games, which is unlikely, and the only way the game companies will change in the way they depict women is if bikini-clad fantasy girls suddenly become unpopular, which is even more unlikely. I'm not saying it's right, but I just seriously think that they won't change their tried & tested way of doing things unless there's a distinct financial benefit to them doing so.

http://harmonyzone.org

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Cho

#37 May 15, 2008, 08:15:02 pm

Comrade!
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She's probably a category 1, but at least she's a General wearing full armor! That counts for something, right?

Quote

Females as antagonists are surprisingly more rare and by antagonist I mean they consistently oppose the protagonist from start to finish. You'll notice that any game with a female antagonist will almost always reform before the end of the game (or before dying) or she'll reveal that she was an undercover agent or something/has a crush on the hero and joins the group.

Well, there's.... um... a couple of the Castlevania antagonists? The chick from Castlevania Bloodlines or whatever and the one from Castlevania Circle of the Moon? Then you have Wendy from Suikoden 1 who I think I would count, but she may be a turn coat at the end, I don't remember. I can't think of any more.

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Sapsuker

#38 May 15, 2008, 11:02:14 pm

*peck*
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What about fucking KERRIGAN from StarCraft

jesus fuck she's like the ULTIMATE ANTAGONIST OF ALL SPACE

queen of blades... she's probably the most consistent antagonist I've ever seen

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Dead Phoenix

#39 May 16, 2008, 02:01:14 am

Gigantic Megaman danceing time!
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Quote from: radio_raheem on May 15, 2008, 07:00:48 pm

there's no way that this problem is as big in other forms of entertainment as it is video games. I mean yeah there are plenty of dumb and unrealistic female characters on TV and movies and whatever, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as with video games where nearly all female characters are underage and have DDD breasts and wear nothing but lingerie.
well yeah there isn't an absolute necessity for this evolution to occur but if the game industry wants to be taken seriously and draw in more females and not look like its some gross nerdy thing that caters entirely to fat sweaty virgins then they should definitely at least try. I'm not asking for any feminist simulator games but least try to reach the level movies and TV have attained where female characters don't walk around exclusively in hooker outfits and look like porn stars.

I think your leaving out one major factor in all this, the types of games women are actually interested in playing. The fact is a lot of women play games, they are just either Wii mini-game collections or Bejeweled and shit like that. I really doubt adding a strong female lead that isn't a sex object, in the next Doom or Final Fantasy would really start pulling in the numbers. Remember BG&E?

Speaking of BG&E...
Beyond Good and Evil 2 in the works

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#40 May 16, 2008, 02:06:04 am

Insane teacher
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uhhhh lots of GRRRL GAMERZ love Final Fantasy and Halo and shit.

it's just there's really no incentive to play them when the people making them clearly view you as an object.

brian chemicals

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