Argument and Debate: an excellent, productive way to settle a disagreement, as long as all parties actually participate and play by the rules.  But what happens when someone refuses to do so?  I've been put in situations where the other party refuses to play by the rules, and it still puzzles me to this day.

Every couple argues.  This is a basic law of nature.  As a married man, I am no stranger to the argument.  Things usually begin as so:

Party 1 makes declarative statement.

Party 2 disagrees.

Argument begins.

In a good argument, party one declares their point of view on the subject.  Party two then states that their statement was either true, or false, and offers a counter argument.  Party one follows suit, and this continues until one party admits defeat, or the whole argument hits a stalemate.  This is a good argument.  Both sides are participating, and both sides remain open to the other, while preparing their own reasons.

When you're married, things usually don't work out that way.

Arguments with my wife usually go as follows:  (Actual argument, as remembered.)

Me: I wouldn't mind getting an X-Box 360.
Wife: You're not getting an X-Box 360.
Me: What?  Why not?
Wife: Because you don't need one.
Me: Well of course I don't NEED one.  I still want one.
Wife: No.
Me: I'm not saying I'm getting one right away.  But in the event that we could afford one, I would like to pick one up.
Wife: (Silent Treatment.)
Me: Are you saying that you would never permit me to own an XBOX?  Let's say we won the lottery, and had 20 million dollars in the bank right now.  Would you mind if I went and got an XBOX?
Wife: You're not getting an XBOX.
Me: I'm not hearing any real reasons why not.
Wife: There aren't even any good games on the XBOX.
Me: That you know of. (Proceed to list awesome games.)
Wif​Silent treatment.)
Me: Are you afraid that I'll play the XBOX so much, that I'll ignore you?
Wife: (Silent treatment)
Me: I still don't understand why you don't want me to have an XBOX.

This kind of thing goes on.  This was months ago, and I still have no idea why she is so firmly against me owning an XBOX.

We've had similar arguments.  I present my reasons, and she ignores them, tossing out a flimsy response of her own every so often.  She doesn't want to argue with me, but she still wants to win.  Sometimes, this results in me taking a dive, just to settle things.  I convince myself that I can live without whatever I'm arguing for.

The strange thing is, these sorts of arguments are usually about very small things, like owning a 360.  Me wanting one is a very insignificant thing, while her refusing to allow me to have one is also insignificant.  I think "This is so petty, why is she so firm on not allowing this?" while she's thinking "This is so petty, why is he so firm on wanting this?"

How can I argue with someone who refuses to argue with me?  She has admitted that she doesn't want to argue, yet she doesn't want to lose.  I've countered this by refusing to ever take another dive.  If she doesn't want me to do something, then she's going to have to present valid reasons that I shouldn't.  If I receive no reasons, then I'm going to go ahead with it, accepting the evil eye and the silent treatment regardless.  I'm hoping she'll eventually learn to argue, knowing that the only way she can get her way is to actually convince me why she should.

Previous arguments and their outcome.

1 - Wife doesn't want me to drink beer, though I already drink very little.
I agree not to purchase any beer, but have one if offered around family, friends.
She agrees, but later objects to even this.  I take a dive, and have since not had a beer in over a year.

2 - Wife wants to home-school children.
I agree, but suggest that public school still remain an open possibility in case a child shows interest and feels that they could learn better in such an environment.
Wife refuses to accept this.
Wife's mother agrees with me.  Wife seems to suddenly magically understand.  Argument over.  I'm confused.

3 - Wife doesn't want M rated games in the house.
I disagree, commenting that at 23 years, I am perfectly old enough and mature enough to play such games.
Wife argues back that "she wasn't raised with those games." and "what if our kids see."
I argue back that "I wasn't raised with them either, but now I'm old enough to play." and that "I don't need to play around the kids or you.  I can play at night if need be, with the monitor turned away from you.
Wife gives silent treatment.
I point out R rated movies wife owns, and how I don't bug her about those.  This makes wife's mood worsen.
Time passes, wife loosens up and I play M rated games regularly.

I know that this isn't the end of our arguments.  It's a fact of life.  I'm dreading the next one, because I don't know how to argue with someone who doesn't argue back, yet still wants to win, and something tells me that my "refusing to take a dive" idea is a very bad idea.  Any GOOD ideas?

I was loading the dishwasher just now, when I think I may have discovered a pattern.

Her argument approach is passive-aggressive.  She states her disagreement, then refuses to back it up, choosing instead to wait for me to simply give in from the frustration, which I am ashamed to say works sometimes.

Here is a possible new approach:

I will include her in everything as I always have, unless she uses her patented passive-aggressive technique, at which point I break off all conversation on the topic and proceed as planned.  If she offers up actual argument, I will listen, but I will simply refuse to accept any "commands" given without reason.  I will not state this, I will simply act on it.

Possible approach:

Me: I wouldn't mind getting a 360.
Wife: You're not getting a 360.
Me: What?  Why not?
Wife: Because I said so.
Me: Nevermind.  Forget I mentioned it.

(I proceed to save up for a 360.  Purchase one, and bring it home.  We share money, but I am the monetary provider and some funds saved on the side won't be missed.)

At worst, she will resent that I purchased one despite the fact that she said no, but since I avoided the argument early, it won't be nearly as bad.  I just have to be careful not to step on her toes in the process, doing my own thing without impacting her in any way.

Alternatively, if I want something I could keep it secret, save up, then buy it as a "surprise" we can both enjoy, even if I know I'll primarily be the one enjoying it.

When she brings something up, such as how she doesn't want me drinking beer, the moment I discover that she's passive-aggressive, I can simply turn from the topic altogether until she presents something more valid.  This should put the idea in her head that I need substance before I will submit to her will.  It seems that I've been beating myself up while she simply watches.  This is a trend that disturbs me.

Man, at least all the arguments I have with my girlfriend are usually over something substantive where I'm clearly in the wrong like 'I'm not going to kiss you if you smoke' or 'stop shaking the vending machines' or 'you are NOT doing drugs other than pot'.

Is your girlfriend a Wii fangirl or something? Does she like PS3? I can't think of any reasons why she'd bring up LACK OF GOOD GAMES as a reason to not get a 360 unless she's like devoted to another console or some other shit reason.

Also no beer at all? Jesus Christ, man.

Your new plan sounds good by the way.

Thats what I would've done in the first place. It seems like she wants to keep you on a leash or something and thats her way of doing it.

Here's how my argument would have gone:

Me: I think I'll get an Xbox
Wife: Yournot getting xbodx
ME: WHAT?!

*proceeds to punchin face

I hate fucking mindgames and I would have so lost my shit.

Say you want more initially then pretend to settle for less. Works every time.

Dude bondo she is totally trying to whip you man. And its pretty much working at the moment. Your new plan now though is pretty good. Don't argue with her unless she put up reasons. But do not take a dive either. Cause I think you've trained her to feel that she can just argue like this and win anyway, which from your stories seems to have worked.

[PHILOSOPHICAL ][/PHILOSOPHICAL]
Then again, we are all human and most of us have human emotions, and we do irrational things. By irrational I mean let emotion get in the way of fact or practicality. Maybe she doesn't have a reason why you shouldn't have an xbox, and maybe she doesn't have a reason why she doesn't want you to drink beer. But she feels as though your (or perhaps just her) life would be better if you didn't do those things.

Maybe she read stories of people with video game addiction or she knows someone with alcohol problems and she just doesn't know how to argue correctly. Regardless of whether or not she has a real reason, or just has a feeling (aka women are emotionally driven) she might either not know or just not want to argue and she wants you to be able to respect the fact that she has an opinion on this issue without needing a list of answers.

[/PHILOSOPHICAL RESPONSE]

uh yeah i could be ompletely wrong though but go and print this out and show your wife and see what she says (but seriously just talk to her)

your wife sounds really unpleasant. maybe you are painting her to be worse than she is but she just doesn't sound like someone i'd want to know. uhh that's what this topic is about right? she just sounds like an irrational person to me. you can't have arguments with these people, i know people like this and i just stay away from them.

wanting more at first and then pretending settling for less is actually a good way, but she might just stay completely hermetic and only want to settle for NOTHING...

It comes down to the problem of people who see arguing as a DEBATE instead of an argument. In an argument, people aren't completely convinced of their own position and are really ready to hear the opposing ideas. In a debate, both parties KNOW they are right. Like in politics, when party chiefs debate, they aren't trying to convince the opposing party, but rather convince the people watching the debate from outside. If you argue against a person who is debating, you have already lost. She isnt going to change her mind. She doesn't want to find out who is right, she wants to WIN, she sees this as a competition, and sees you as an enemy. Every time you talk, she probably barely listens, since anything you say then is an ATTACK to her position, a position she is defending at any cost.

You are forced to convince her outside of her DEBATE MODE, by making her change her mind by herself. That really blows though, since it takes a lot of time and effort, while if you could simply get her to argue normally things would be soooo easier.
Taking the XBOX DEBATE as an example: Find out why exactly she doesn't want an XBOX 360 without asking the question (that would trigger a DEBATE MODE ALERT) and try to convince her passively. For instance if she thinks the games suck, show her games you think she would go crazy for,without ever bringing up what console they're for.  In short, you need to avoid debating as much as you can and make her change her mind by herself, so to her, it wont be that "YOU WON THE DEBATE", but rather, that "THINGS CHANGED SINCE THE LAST TIME YOU ASKED", so she didn't really "lose".

i dont think there is much you can do really, just try your new approach

Me: I wouldn't mind getting an X-Box 360.
Wife: You're not getting an X-Box 360.
Me: What?  Why not?
Wife: Because you don't need one.
Me: I don't care if I don't need one, I want one and I have the right to do whatever I like. I want it so I'm going to get it. END

if you said that. Wow, i would not want to be around her then

I only wrote about the way she argues, so I imagine the image of her right now isn't pretty to anyone that doesn't know her.  Arguments between us are rare, but they happen.  In fact, in the two years we've been together, the arguments I listed were the only ones I could think of.  It's a short list.

We don't have children, yet, but she is currently pregnant with our first son, so yeah, she was using the kids we don't have as an example.  We've barely argued at all since she's been in this "state" for obvious reasons, with one exception.  I wanted to go play some Dungeons and Dragons with some guys at work, and she wanted me to stay home and cuddle.  Pregnant women are needy, which is something I can understand and respect.  I actually played a session against her will, but only one.

When she isn't pregnant, or pmsing, she is a very pleasant and nice person to be around, and I don't regret marrying her in the slightest.

She loves the Wii, and won't go anywhere without her DS, so videogames are not what she's averted to.  She didn't have a problem with me buying a 300 dollar video card last year, so I'm still not sure why the 360 is a hot button topic.

uh.

buy an xbox360 if you want? as long as you're not using her money who gives a shit? i mean i know you're married and i assume you SHARE FUNDS and stuff but just start saving a bit of your paycheck and buy one.

i'm not married so i don't really know the MARRIAGE ETIQUETTE on things like that