that's what doesn't make sense to me though. if you can beat the game with zero alerts, you know the game inside and out, so why do you need stealth camo? a lot of games do this where once you do some challenge they will give you something that destroys the challenge of the game even further. in RE2 you get a rocket launcher if you beat the game only using normal weapons and no first aid sprays (also in under 3 hours!). at this point though you are so good at the game having a rocket launcher doesn't really mean anything and you probably won't play it again. so this is a general game complaint i guess.

Beating the FROGS without killing them is super easy.  In the first part, let Meryl and the throwaway characters finish the fight (seriously WTF happened to those guys they had 4 lines in the entire game).  After that, crawl, play dead, and send the MK II out to stun all the FROGS.  They're too busy fighting Meryl to care about the MK II.

The extras are just there for the player to have fun. With those weapons, people can be screwing around with the game, using Stealth Camo to get reactions from enemies, and so on.

But for whatever stupid reason the game requires you to be a master to get the good stuff.  In MGS1, all you had to do was beat the game and they gave you an extra item (ugh, stealth camo for letting Meryl die THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CANON ENDING URGGG and Bandanna for rescuing her I think).  It was fun to replay the game with the extra item because there was an alternate ending and you had, you know, a badass item.

After that it went downhill with MGS2 introducing the retarded Dog Tags.  MGS3 was good because all you had to do was beat the game (or shoot all 20 kerotan frogs or whatever) and there were few extras that required you to go out of your way.  Resident Evil 4 gave you the Chicago Typewriter for beating the game on normal as well as Ada mode and a bunch of other stuff.  Why does MGS4 reward you for knowing the game inside and out when you honestly won't care to play through it again with the extra item????  Shouldn't the whole point behind a game destroying item be to actually use it?  If I know the exact patrol routes of every enemy I don't give a fuck that I now have stealth camo because I won't ever touch the game again.

what i mean is that once you beat the game with NO ALERTS and beat it in THREE HOURS you probably played the game to death anyway. i get it's for FUN but it makes no sense to give the best gun in the game to the player after he masters the game because he is probably sick of it by then. what fun will you have using SUPER GUN when you can easily kill enemies anyway (not to mention you probably killed thousands to get all the stupid emblems).

also marcus just made a good post about what i am talking about. he posts in much greater detail as well.

i refuse to play this game because from the first cutscene to killing the first enemy is 20 minutes, you don't have to play this game i mean there are like maybe 3 hours of playable content, some guy on youtube did it if you skip the cut scenes there are maybe 3 hours of playable content   like wtf is the point

Speedrun maybe?

extras the person in question will not need though. do you really not see how kind of useless it is to fuck around with a stealth camo when you probably spent hours on hours on the game in question exploring everything without it? like in MGS, once you beat it you got a neat little thing that let you beat the game easier, but here you have to do a lot of stupid impossible shit that requires you to know the game intimately so whatever you get, it's pretty near worthless for replay!

oh cool i can hit a guy and he won't know too bad I memorized his routine entirely because I had to in order to get the stupid thing that lets me do this.

personally I'd rather have some kind of new level or something

So what if the player knows the game? Again, the stealth and bandana and other extras are just for fun, and with them you can take a different approach on the game. Sure, maybe it doesn't give the player 100x replay value, but they're extras.

I replayed MGS1 twice a while back and I didn't remember how fucking hard the game is even on normal (maybe I just suck???) and there are some parts that are impossible to get through without proper WEAPONS, like the part where you climb the Comm Tower for the first time, if you are short on Famas and Socom bullets and have no stun nades you are going to die.

I had 4 rations (that was max rations at that point I think) and a fuckload of Famas and Socom bullets +few nades but I still almost died before reaching the top and halfway through I was out of Famas bullets so I switched to Socom but that is completely ineffective in that part of the game so my only chance was the stun nades but I only had like 4 so that didn't get me too far.

The other time when you climb the Tower there are the guncameras on the walls, there is no way to sneak past them so you need A) Chaffs or B) Stinger missiles. I'm not sure but I think the cannons knock you on the ground so you can't advance up if they are there and they do a LOT of damage so its like 6 hits and you are dead.

Some of the bosses were harder than I remembered too but in boss fights you constantly find more ammo so its no big deal, but on the parts that I mentioned +a few others you just need those nades and ammo and the Bandana is like an answer to my prayers.

So at least in MGS1 the bonus items were really useful and you got them without being a korean. But maybe MGS1 has more replay value than the others because you can run through it in a couple of hours (maybe even less?? It was a really short game) and it only has 2 or 3 long codec convos/cutscenes and it all actually makes some sense and is pretty good and interesting.

But I'd say going through the game with extreme precision and constantly being concerned whether or not you get discovered or kill someone by accident is a really bad way to make players unlock some items because after you've done all that you most likely don't want to see the game in the rest of your life.

But maybe MGS1 has more replay value than the others because you can run through it in a couple of hours (maybe even less?? It was a really short game) and it only has 2 or 3 long codec convos/cutscenes and it all actually makes some sense and is pretty good and interesting.

I was always under the impression that it was longer than MGS2 (this is not an attack on you, just a comment I'm making), and after beating MGS2 again the other day on Extreme or whatever in 2.5 hours, I sure hope so.

I mean, I wasn't even trying especially hard to speed run it!
(and granted I skipped all the cutscenes/codec calls, but still! 2 and a half hours!)

Do you know  what you're talking about? You sound like getting stealth and bandana is as hard as killing a whale with your bare hands. Seriously, you don't need to know everything about the game in order to get them and in theory they can be acquired even on first playthrough IF the player does what he/she's supposed to do: sneaking. Ok, I'm pretty sure no one gets them on their first round with the game, but really, it's not that hard and time-consuming.

...it's a pretty difficult task. you just casually said JUST DONT GET ANY ALERTS but uh that is impossible on the first go through and requires you to load multiple saves or just play the game over and over to achieve. it's a pretty lame gift for getting ridiculously good at the game.

seriously think about it, DO NOT GET ANY ALERTS for stealth and for the bandana, don't kill anyone. these are both very hard to do (the bandana less so, but still). it's a lot of effort for something that you ironically will have gotten good at without using (since the bandana would require you to tranq/stun everyone, and you don't pick up many non lethal weapons).

its basically the stupidest trend in videogames to reward people who work really hard with shit that makes the game easier because they are the last people who need it. give them, yeah, an extra level or something instead.

I was always under the impression that it was longer than MGS2 (this is not an attack on you, just a comment I'm making), and after beating MGS2 again the other day on Extreme or whatever in 2.5 hours, I sure hope so.

I mean, I wasn't even trying especially hard to speed run it!
(and granted I skipped all the cutscenes/codec calls, but still! 2 and a half hours!)

I've only played through MGS2 once but MGS1 is like REALLY short.


*** LOL MGS 1 SPOILARS, GAMEPLAY IN A NUTSHELL ***

You can get to the DARPA Chief in like 10 minutes and after that its basically 1 Area -> Boss -> 1 Area -> Boss until the game ends. Seriously. After you defeat Ocelot, you need to take the elevator up and go out and then its the M1 Tank boss, then you go forward 1 area and shoot down the electrified floor system and proceed to the Ninja boss, then you go find Meryl on the floor above and go to face off Mantis, then you go throug the wolf place and backtrack to the sniper rifle so you can fight Wolf, then you get tortured, then you escape and theres the section which is kinda long without boss fights, the whole Comm Tower climb with guards zerging you from all sides and after that you climb down the wall with the Hind trying to kill you and then after a few more obstacles you face off the Hind. Hind goes down and so do you, via elevator, and face Wolf. Then you sneak past 1 area and face off Raven. Then you do the whole Temperature Card Key thing which was less tedious then I remembered. Then its Metal Gear, a punch out with Liquid and the car chase and there you are done.

*** LOL MGS 1 SPOILARS, GAMEPLAY IN A NUTSHELL ***


Basically there's 5 minutes worth of sneaking puzzles between the bosses which take like 2 minutes each depending on the difficulty though +2 backtracking trips.

I don't think MGS2 was this short.

Oh man, I'd forgotten it was that short.

Might replay it via Twin Snakes!

Yeah, any True Gamer could do this on the fourth of fifth playthrough easily