So basically feed the animals shit food (which does get into their bodies and some transfers to ours) and then eat the animals that ate shit food?  Why not eat animals that were fed good food?

Because you're assuming too much.

The GRAIN USED TO MAKE A STEAK shit isn't true in most cases, but vegans like to think it is.  Most farmers don't feed cows that much grain.  You know what the cows at my house eat?  What my dad feeds them?  Good grass and good hay.  Just like the cows at almost every farm I know of.  We've fed them shit grain before, when other food sources weren't available.  They also eat it on top of the other foods.  But you know what?  Cows don't give a fuck.  The grain isn't the quality that we as humans would eat, but think about all the shit animals eat all the time, that they don't mind one bit.  Hell, some animals literally eat shit, how many dogs have I seen tasting their own feces or eating rotting food laying around.  A dog doesn't care whether it's eating a rotting fish carcass washed up on the side of a pond for two weeks or gourmet individually packaged dog meals.  Cows don't care much whether they're eating grass or hay or grain, they are just EATING.  It's shit grain because it's shit grain to US.  To a cow, it's fantastic wonderful grain.

The problem is that you are projecting human feelings towards food on an animal that doesn't care what it's eating.

aw, so it really doesn't matter what cows eat?

that sucks, king of the hill lied to me.

well then again I bet non-factory farmed cow tastes better just because of not being in a shitty factory but still I wanted to entertain the notion of a cow raised on foie grass (heh a pun) that would be so tender you could eat it with a spoon.

aw, so it really doesn't matter what cows eat?

that sucks, king of the hill lied to me.

well then again I bet non-factory farmed cow tastes better just because of not being in a shitty factory but still I wanted to entertain the notion of a cow raised on foie grass (heh a pun) that would be so tender you could eat it with a spoon.

Well I would say how you treat a cow would make a difference, because the less stressed an animal is the more healthy it is.  But really, cows will eat pretty much anything.  They do nothing BUT eat anything that's in front of their face and shitting it back out in the process.  They really don't make much of a decision on what food they're going to eat, it's just whatever is near.

Also, when you pour the grain out for them, they will push and shove each other to get to it.  I would consider that as a sign that it's not too bad (and it's not like they're STARVING AND FORCED TO EAT IT, we feed our cows really well).

edit: Also the feed is mostly corn, not grain.  The corn is pretty shit corn too though, but still, cows don't care.

Because you're assuming too much.

The GRAIN USED TO MAKE A STEAK shit isn't true in most cases, but vegans like to think it is.  Most farmers don't feed cows that much grain.  You know what the cows at my house eat?  What my dad feeds them?  Good grass and good hay.  Just like the cows at almost every farm I know of.  We've fed them shit grain before, when other food sources weren't available.  They also eat it on top of the other foods.  But you know what?  Cows don't give a fuck.  The grain isn't the quality that we as humans would eat, but think about all the shit animals eat all the time, that they don't mind one bit.  Hell, some animals literally eat shit, how many dogs have I seen tasting their own feces or eating rotting food laying around.  A dog doesn't care whether it's eating a rotting fish carcass washed up on the side of a pond for two weeks or gourmet individually packaged dog meals.  Cows don't care much whether they're eating grass or hay or grain, they are just EATING.  It's shit grain because it's shit grain to US.  To a cow, it's fantastic wonderful grain.

The problem is that you are projecting human feelings towards food on an animal that doesn't care what it's eating.

That may be true on your farm but the majority of animals raised for food come from factory farms:
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_9211626

In which they are treated like shit and fed unnatural diets and given hormones, antibiotics...etc which are transferred to our bodies when we eat them.  This isn't true for all meat though.

That may be true on your farm but the majority of animals raised for food come from factory farms:
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_9211626

In which they are treated like shit and fed unnatural diets and given hormones, antibiotics...etc which are transferred to our bodies when we eat them.  This isn't true for all meat though.

The last time I checked none of us were trying to argue for factory farms.

At all.

The last time I checked none of us were trying to argue for factory farms.

At all.

I know.  Your saying that your cows are fed grass and hay and that is good but the majority of cows raised for food are raised on factory farms and fed an unnatural diet (not grass and hay).

I know.  Your saying that your cows are fed grass and hay and that is good but the majority of cows raised for food are raised on factory farms and fed an unnatural diet (not grass and hay).

This is not a reason to be a vegetarian though, just one to not eat factory farmed meat (which you mentioned already).  It's just sort of...extra information.

Yeah that is true

there' a kind of cow that is massaged its whole life, and they have it listen to slow music, all its life too, and treated like queens untill they kill them and then charge a fortune for it (in a normal restaurant it's around 60$ just a small piece of steak)

God, after reading through this thread I'm craving steak. Why not just live off insects; they're high in protein, theirs bajillions of them, and they'll just get eaten by animals or die in like a week due to short life spans.

These type of people don't live close to nature they live in tune with nature, they are one with nature.  Hunter-gatherers societies kill only what they need for that time period (they don't store mass amounts of food as we do), for the most part they do not grow their own food via mass agriculture as we do (they hunt and gather, yes some do agriculture but not on a mass scale), they make sure the population of the species they are using still thrives (so it's assured that they will have an endless supply and that other creatures can have some of that supply).  They don't do shit like poison water systems and cut down forests...etc.  Fyi More than 100 species go extinct each day!

This is the way all animals in nature live (and humans are animals as well.

i wasn't talking specifically about hunter-gatherers (although it applies). i was talking about poor villages without electricity that rely on agriculture and a little hunting. my father came from one of those, and he would always tell me stories about how he and his friends when they were children were cruel to animals and how he would hunt for the kicks, etc. a lot of people living in very rural areas hunt for fun (heh rednecks) and most of them  have less simpathy for animals than we do.

you are romanticizing hunter-gatherers. they aren't "in tune with nature" that is hippie bullshit that racist westerners buy in, thinking that all the idyllic, quaint and simpleminded hunter-gatherers hate  technology and hate to live comfortable lives. i dont know hunter-gatherers, but i do know very simple rural folk, and they certainly don't muse all day about protecting mother gaia, etc and would probably use better technology if they had access to it.  i suspect its similar to hunter-gatherers because after all they are human.

to be honest, i think a lot of western hippie types are racist because they think only themselves like technology and comfort and everyone else likes to live like shit. The idyllic tibetian serfs liked their buddhist  feudal monarchy, and the quaint south american indigenous people would rather be "one with the soil" than have access to urban comforts.

man should attempt to become the sovereign of nature.

my point was it takes a lot more resources to provide for someone eating meat 3 times a day than it does for someone who doesn't (given they don't have a retarded horrible diet or something)

And back to what I was saying, the food provided to cows is pretty much inedible by us.  We're going to have a lot of leftover shit grain and corn that isn't going to be used by us in any other way, so there is NO DOWNSIDE AT ALL to feeding it to the cows.  And, as I said, grass and hay are also a large part of a cow's diet, two more things that humans don't often consider food.  That's like saying we waste too much dog food feeding our dogs when we could be eating it ourselves.

Or would you prefer we just throw away the unusable grain and corn pieces?  I don't know, your argument is pretty useless man.

I'd like to further add to Alec's point (READ CAREFULLY LASTLIFE) that human's digestive system isn't really designed for vegan food. Like, at all. It has been proven that only certain tribes living in the jungle had these necessary micro-organisms in their bowels which could intensify the digestation of vegetables. These are kind of things which herbivores has quite an amount inside. The only part that can digest vegetables in human's body is large intestine and it doesn't do it very well.

So yeah, while it takes much vegetables to make a steak, it would take EVEN MORE (multiple amount) to feed a human with vegetables. When you add to this that you have to figure out a way to supply the necessary vitamins, ferums and whatnot that you usually get from meat... yeah, there is a treshold for being a vegan, not to mention that it is not just a realistic option to make everyone in the Earth a vegan: we would run out of food very quickly. Like Marmot said (never knew about that, btw, interesting), is an option only open to Western middle-class people right now.

In my opinion, a balanced diet between meat and vegetables is the best for health rather than a vegetarian food only.

Slaughterhouses are pretty horrible, thats true. Ive seen lots of videos that were pretty disturbing, with like employees torturing the animals just for kicks, zapping them around and laughing. But on the other hand, its hard to imagine a slaughter factory that would NOT be horrible. Its a place where living things come in, and wrapped products come out, how the hell could it be made "pretty"? Also it has to be pretty disturbing to work there. It can probably really change people, and probably in a bad way.

Those must be slaughter houses from some 3rd world country then, or the sort of slaughter houses that operate illegally and don't produce meat that you could easily (if at all) get your hands on.

A real slaughter house is actually a very clean and efficient place. Animals are killed quickly and painlessly (they are totally paralyzed and made incapable of feeling pain). Every single stage of the animals slaughter is also monitored, and any meat that would leave the slaughter house is first inspected (so are blood and the insides of animals). All these inspectors are also not hired by the slaughter house but usually by whoever the meat would be going to, meaning they do a proper job.
I have a family member who works in a slaughter house and have been to one before, and they are not disgusting or cruel or even anything like these videos would lead you to believe (other than animals getting killed, which can be sort of disturbing the first few times you see it, but it is not like blood and guts all over the place).

All those videos you've seen are nothing like your average slaughter house at all.

Anyway, I don't care about the morals of eating meat. I can eat meat, and will do so regardless of what people try to say or do about it.

Also, crop farming and eating vegetables is just as immoral as eating meat. Animal habitats are destroyed due to farming, pesticides kill a lot more than just pests and in the battle of combine harvester vs harvest mouse (and allies) the combine harvester wins, every time.
So trying to take the moral high ground makes you look ignorant or hypocritical.

I am going to eat meat and laugh in the face of anyone who tries to stop me (with a mouth full of chewn up meat!).