holy shit does the Bible really say birds came before LAND

hahahaha

enviromental rpessures have everything to with evolution dude. it is precisely because the cianide processing bacterias are able to survive and adapt to the enviroment that they breed.

missed this before, this isn't what the article is about at all. suddenly the bacteria could metabolise citrate and they theorised previous generations laid the groundworks for the trait. none of the mutations leading to it were beneficial, it's a stab against creationists who say that life is too complex to have an eye or something form by sheer accident.

holy shit does the Bible really say birds came before LAND

hahahaha

in genisis the order of creation is light and darkness, then seperating the sky from the waters, then seperated the waters from the land, then plants, stars, sun and moon, birds and fish, then all the land based animals and finally man.

i think there's a second creation story somewhere else and the order is phrased differently but i've never heard BIRDS BEFORE LAND before

I think that is the fundamental fallacy of religion at large. Religion is a lie, crafted in good nature, but nonetheless a lie to ourselves and our reason. It's just a convenience. Creationism and intelligent design, no -- they are not yet PROVEN ABSOLUTELY FALSE, so even the most diehard of scientists have to put faith in their own founding postulates. But faith on these grounds is far more reasonable than blind faith in religious dogma. This topic has thoroughly shown that evolution DOES EXIST. Where is the hardcore evidence that proves GOD EXISTS.

ok first off, how is it crafted in good nature? read the old testament. if it was made to make the jews feel special i don't know how, because it's littered with silly things like WANDERING AROUND A DESERT FOR 40 YEARS that's only a few days long. religion isn't convienient at all and i don't know why people spout this while claiming religion is TOO FULL OF RULES
ps jesus didn't come to bring peace - the bible

hardcore evidence, heh. this is a run down of both sides:
christians: the bible is right, anything that doesn't seem to line up hasn't been explained yet.
evolutionists: evolution happened. anything that doesn't seem to line up hasn't been explained yet. here's some teeth TAKE THAT YOU BIBLE TOTING HIPPIES, WE'VE GOT EVIDENCE.

i guess there might be a lot of teeth but i'm not too sure how many dino skeletons they've found even.

Ask yourself -- are you a Christian because you voluntarily made a reasonable choice to be one? Or are you a Christian simply because that's how you were brought up? Finally, what reasonable God would delight in your 'faith,' if you are of the latter?

"...I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be those of his own household"-jesus christ, the bible.

"I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. Since you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to spit you out of my mouth." -someone, the bible.

Sorry if this has already been brought up, but I didn't really feel like reading the whole thread.

I've never really been a die-heart on either side of this issue, I don't really know what the popular arguments are for either but to me this doesn't really change anything.

To me evolution is fact, organisms can mutate and evolve into other organisms, creating new species, etc, etc. However I don't see how evolution explains initial origin of anything. I'm one of those annoying people that don't understand the Big Bang or whatever, because how does something go bang when nothing exists prior?

Creationism says a higher being made things, but I think its stupid and ignorant to think every species that exists now has always and were all created.

So this new evidence gives evolution even more scientific proof, super, I think anyone claiming evolution doesn't occur in any sense is in denial and closed-minded. However this evidence still doesn't solve the origin problem, and I think creationism is a fine solution for that, but I'm spiritual and am okay believing that.

So, if any of you guys that love this issue to death have some arguments for either side over this I'd love to hear it.

Sorry if this has already been brought up, but I didn't really feel like reading the whole thread.

I've never really been a die-heart on either side of this issue, I don't really know what the popular arguments are for either but to me this doesn't really change anything.

To me evolution is fact, organisms can mutate and evolve into other organisms, creating new species, etc, etc. However I don't see how evolution explains initial origin of anything. I'm one of those annoying people that don't understand the Big Bang or whatever, because how does something go bang when nothing exists prior?

Creationism says a higher being made things, but I think its stupid and ignorant to think every species that exists now has always and were all created.

So this new evidence gives evolution even more scientific proof, super, I think anyone claiming evolution doesn't occur in any sense is in denial and closed-minded. However this evidence still doesn't solve the origin problem, and I think creationism is a fine solution for that, but I'm spiritual and am okay believing that.

So, if any of you guys that love this issue to death have some arguments for either side over this I'd love to hear it.

They're both guesses and nobody knows which one is right

I'm talking about the "big bang". "Everything was nothing and then it exploded and became everything" makes as much sense as "The invisible ghost made the world in seven days"

--

PS: and before someone asks how is this related to anything, Fish said that he thinks creationism is a fine solution for the "orign of the universe" question, but since it is a guess then I think everything else is an acceptable answer for that question too (because nobody really knows the answer)

yes

No.
read the bible slick, you're arguing about culture and tradition. the bible says everyones going to hell, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god." being a nice guy for the sake of being a nice guy is all very well but it won't get you any closer to god. you're basically saying WHY DO WE NEED GOD TO BE NICE PEOPLE??? and this is from a misunderstanding about what sin is

but lets thank america for their goal based approach to religion.

Sorry if this has already been brought up, but I didn't really feel like reading the whole thread.
[...]
So, if any of you guys that love this issue to death have some arguments for either side over this I'd love to hear it.

thanks for this

"...I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be those of his own household"-jesus christ, the bible.

"I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. Since you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to spit you out of my mouth." -someone, the bible.

The first one isn't about bringing a sword to KILL PEOPLE (you have to read shit in context man), but its about how he came to make the people of the day change the way they were acting and shit and that would bring division into families and he was aware of that.  Second one doesnt really make him look bad at all (I mean in any way besides being a normal GOD ASSHOLE who sends people to hell).  Also again I think that is in revelation written to one of the "7 churches or something".

yeah not violence but not peace; i used it to show that the 'my parents are christian so i'm a christian too' thing doesn't fly, same with the other one. i've always heard the lukewarm thing as I'D RATHER YOU WERE A CHRISTIAN OR A NON-CHRISTIAN 

what's the fun of having an imaginary friend whose needs are eternally unsatisfiable

i smiled and nodded my head at a tree the other day, that's good enough for me

i've always heard the lukewarm thing as I'D RATHER YOU WERE A CHRISTIAN OR A NON-CHRISTIAN 

Yeah, pretty much.  Is that really so bad though?  Hes saying be one thing or dont, but don't do it halfass or lie about it or whatever.

I guessyou got it though I just thought you were doing the whole "HEY GUYS, I guess JESUS isnt as GOOD as we THOUGHT, EH?  LOOK at this CRAZY stuff I FOUND in the BIBLE" that people do all the time

(ps i am not christian sorry for defending their holy scriptures!)

no that's cool, i only brought them up to counter this:

Ask yourself -- are you a Christian because you voluntarily made a reasonable choice to be one? Or are you a Christian simply because that's how you were brought up? Finally, what reasonable God would delight in your 'faith,' if you are of the latter?

which actually reads like something they'd give to youth to strengthen their faith

i'd really encourage everyone to go CRACK OPEN A BIBLE or at least the new testament. you might not believe it or whatever but it'd at least be good to understand how the other half live. (or are meant to live).

what's the fun of having an imaginary friend whose needs are eternally unsatisfiable

i smiled and nodded my head at a tree the other day, that's good enough for me

d...douglasssss

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

while this thread mostly just highlights how many people are still wilfully ignorant of how evolution really works, I am very pleased to see some of the brilliant and well thought out replies some people have posted (they're much better then I think I could have done).

I've been reading Richard Dawkin's "the selfish gene" recently and I have to say it is a fascinating read, hopefully this experiment with help further our understanding of how gene's work and how they mutate.

hell isn't somewhere you get sent so much as you just don't go to heaven. heaven is where god is and hell is a complete absence of god (which is a big deal considering he made everything you like most probably). you can't be with god if you've sinned, one or a million it doesn't matter.

christians believe that jesus took the sin of the world onto himself, if you have faith in him then you're sinless essentially, and this is what's either hot or cold. you either believe or you don't, you can't sort of believe