i think that meadow bit was just some kind of representation of earth, like one of their stupid visions or maybe it was a hologram/they were transported into ancient times. any way it's put, it is kind of stupid i think and i try not to think about that aspect of the show too much cos it makes me not like it. you know, when they spout unintelligable magical mumbo jumbo like it is the most profound thing they've ever heard.

leoben is basically everything that is wrong with this show i think. man i wish he wasn't a character.

maybe you are correct.

leoben really creeps me out. remember all that stuff with starbuck being locked up with him and he was trying to force her to love him? it was made obvious she wasn't just passively sitting there and letting him dominate her (murdered him with cutlery), but there are certain aspects about that whole storyline i've just never felt comfortable with.

the kid. he brings some girl in, something he says he grew using (jesus christ) her ovary from when she was in the farm, and she initially rejects the girl but then decides she is her daughter and she goes back for her when the planet is getting blown up by adama.

i just don't get what that storyline was mean to say, cos essentially it's a baby born out of rape and while starbuck taking the kid with her could be read as her taking something awful and making it beautiful or her own, she continues this twisted kind of love affair with him - like with on the waste ship recently. the show never really makes it clear what it's intentions with leoben are and i don't think it is the character that irks me so much as his sympathetic portrayl. cos i see him as a murdering religious zealot and serial rapist.

this is part of why i think starbuck is such a wreck of a character, too. i mean, she's annoying as fuck, too, but there are things like this or her abusive childhood being why she is a hardened strongwoman, or how she had to commit suicide over that.

if you think i'm totally off the mark with leoben then explain because i know i'm not getting to the core of it here, but there has always been something that i can't stand about him - even aside from his nonsense babbling. i mean, it's not the actor, i think the actor does a pretty great job most of the time.

this post is garbage.


 

I dont know if the religion stuff is them just trying to ascribe supernatural significance to their actions.  It seems like (in the universe of the show) there might actually be some kind of god guiding them or whatever.

OR it could be #12 and his demon warlords tricking them

Leoben is pretty much a crazy religious fanatic. He loves the Cylon religion and god, and in the process throws doubt and misinformation everywhere.

I've pretty much just considered his entire character to be based in irony. He is fanatical about monotheistic dogma, and yet does these horrible things. He believes in truth and faith, and yet spreads lies and doubt (the rape pregnancy not really being true, just a child, etc.) to break people towards his beliefs.

You know? I didn't really think there was anything much to it beyond that. Just a Cylon that has pretty much gone beyond humanity and become a monster. I think he ultimately represents a human who has taken religion too far, but I consider all the cylons to basically be humans who have taken a certain aspect of humanity to the extreme, ultimately failing to reach the mark of surpassing their creators.

edit:
Also I seriously think its either Adama or Baltar. Baltar had that scene with D'Anna or whatever in the temple where he went "You were right", so idk. Plus he's been accused of using Cylon projection. But Adama and Tigh, have been friends forever, so maybe Adama has been one for the longest time and befriended one of the seven. Kind of like Boomer and Tyrol.

The only problem with that is that D'Anna couldn't immediately identify the fifth, but that might just be memory loss. Also Leoden said Adama was a cylon and he lies all the fucking time. (This could be Lee Adama tho...)

Plus there's the whole "only 4 cylons in your fleet", and yet that could of just been a lie by D'Anna as well. Especially if she couldn't really make out the 5th.

It could be Starbuck too, but again its MR PSYCHO telling her she'll destroy humanity so I don't believe that very much. Someone else said it too tho, so idk. It's possible because she came back from the dead, but she could be the avatar of Aurora, which could be the destiny. The virtual Leoben inside Starbuck said he'd take her to the place inbetween life and death and when she was revived she said she found Earth too, sooo

Ultimately I think Starbuck is going to lead humanity and Cylonity (lol) to a god, which will probably fuck them up since they are all NO...DIVINITY...DOES NOT EXISTS. Maybe the fifth Cylon is actually a god, possibly the jealous god that destroyed Kobol or overthrew the others or whatever. It would sorta explain how the 13th tribe knew Cylons would exist later on down the road besides prophetic vision.

There's the possibility that the 5th cylon is the child between Tigh and Six as well. Living in the shadow wanting to go to the light, ie being in a womb wanting to come out and seek its redemption. This could fit Lee too since he was said to of wanted to move out of his father's shadow. Or Adama (Adam) being the 1st cylon ever (pretty doubtful). Who knows!!

Whoever it is they probably have ties to the colonial history (Temple of Five), so it might not even be a person we know at all and might just be FIRST CYLON THAT HUMANS MADE NO ONE SPECIAL or maybe it will be.

I really want it to be William Adama though. Badly.

edit edit:
There's also the whole Lords of Kobol and Cylon God connection to think about too.

edit edit edit:
fuck. I just remember the Last Supper photo, and RDM said that the last cylon is none of the people in the Last Supper photo which means Roslin, both Adamas, Baltar, and Starbuck aren't it, unless if he was lying.

the last cylon is just going to be some foreign entity they throw into the mix. it'll probably be hidden somewhere on earth, all linked up to a great computer like this whole thing was an intergalactic video game.

fucking damn!  I hope they dont do that.  See I interpreted the "the last cylon isnt with the fleet" thing as maybe meaning that the last cylon was on the base ship with them, IE it is roslin or baltar.  BUT if they said its not one of the people in the last supper photo then that is fucking lame!  WHO ELSE?

Yeah.

MR: Just so I understand what I think you told EW for the story that went with the photo, none of the people in that photo is the final Cylon, right?

RDM: Yeah. I said that. I probably shouldn’t have said that [laughs] but I have said that. So, yeah [that is the case, the final Cylon is not any of the people in the photo].

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/04/ron-moore-on-ba.html

oh man, they could end up staying on earth and hera growing up and REVEALING HERSELF AS THE FINAL CYLON

hera...all this time...we thought you were just half a cylon.........i can't believe this....


the anti-climax of the four revealing themselves really just deflates the final five reveal anyway. sharon is a cylon and she's been an officer for years in public knowledge. the cylon rebels are tenative allies of the fleet. the four are out loud and proud and no-one really cares. whoever the final cylon is, it has to be a totally different kind of reveal. it can't just be another "you frakkin machine traitorous piece of garbage" kind of thing, because everybody on the show is way past that now.

it has to be a different game, like the cylon being on earth. i really think it will just be contrived and cheesey if they bring back like ellen tigh or some other deadso for the last one. it should be a new character, i think, because there is no-one who will be surprising, and after the initial "whoah....that motherfrackkers a clyon!" reaction...so what?

President Roslin's assistant.  She replaced the other dude way back.

Baltar pwns.

Since some time in the second half of May I started watching BSG and a couple of days ago I had caught up with the fourth season. I've really been liking the series. It's doing a lot of things right and I can't help comparing it to my other favourite space sci-fi show Babylon 5. Compared to B5 the dialogue is a lot more natural (and being the dork I am I found the commentary podcasts and have been listening to them at work), in B5 improvisation was more or less forbidden while BSG seems to incorporate it quite a lot.

But yeah, I love this show. The only bad thing is that my favourite character went and died (Cally) and the fact that I sat here for a month, watched it all and then it turns out the second half of the fourth season isn't coming out until 2009! I thought it'd be out and about in the fall.

your favourite character was cally? that just confuses me. i remember liking her early on, but pretty much from when she shot boomer she turned into this constantly unpleasant racist stump of a character who married a guy that beat the shit out of her.

though her death episode was a really really good one. i enjoyed watching her in that but your favourite? i'm baffled