Debate Homosexuality proven to not be a choice (Read 10191 times)

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The redaction of the article is kinda fuzzy and ambiguous, strange for a news article.

Just because a person's brain is more "similar" to someone else's brain it doesn't means anything. Thats like saying "because I studied 90 people noses and they were big, I conclude all of them are jew because they're alike". It's just stupid, and lastly.. 90 people, only 90 people were tested! For even more reason, it should mean nothing at all. Or in any case, just a 'correlation' as it has been stated, not the reason for homosexuality in human beings.

There may be biological predispositions for homosexuality, but it's more a social and psychological event.
Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 03:51:08 pm by Pulits
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I don't think this "proves" anything, it's a study that seems to indicate something, but it's not 100%sure.
I think that homosexuality might be a mix of genetic predisposition and maybe triggered after some events in life, very possible there isn't only 1 reason to be/become gay.
I'm scared that they will find that it's mostly genetical though, I think the next step would be how to prevent it...
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Well were all born women, till we get the  hormone baths in the womb that change us to be guy's. This isn't news to me though, i mean being born transgendered is same thing, only larger amount of similarity between MTF and a gen girl then between a gay guy and a gen girl.
To be honest saying there is either straight or gay is stupid, there are 6 bllion people in the world and 6 billion differant sexual dispositions, every one is gay to a point, just only willing to push it to a point.

p.s. if you didn't know gen is short for GENETICALLY (there are some people who wouldn't work it out).
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I think this is an oversimplification. While some people certainly can't help being gay, there are plenty who do choose to enter homosexual relationships or have gay sex. There's nothing wrong with it at all though!

I can't help but feeling this nature vs. nurture debate is an attempt to justify homosexuality to people who will never accept it either way.

That’s right, you have the young gaming with the old(er), white people gaming with black people, men and women, Asian countries gaming with the EU, North Americans gaming with South Americans. Much like world sporting events like the Wolrd Cup, or the Olympics will bring together different nations in friendly competition, (note the recent Asian Cup; Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia, no violence there) we come together. The differences being, we are not divided by our nationalities and we do it 24-7, and on a personal level.

We are a community without borders and without colours, the spirit and diversity of the gaming community is one that should be looked up to, a spirit and diversity other groups should strive toward.
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Quote
In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.

The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.

So basically there's a little part of everyone that seriously wants the cock, it's just a matter of where it is and how well it works.

I agree with the people who are saying that 90 people is sort of a small control group.  Still, if there is any relevance to this guy's study then hopefully he'll pursue it further and attain even better evidence.  I'm all for any type of scientific evidence that would contradict some of the dogmatic religious bullshit floating around out there.
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A better number would have been 100 since from there it makes more sense to scale, 10's are an easy number group to scale.
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i don't think this is really going to change anybody's mind about anything.

anyone who thinks homosexuality is wrong and vehemently argues that it is a choice is doing so because you can hate someone who makes an immoral choice. you can't hate someone who is born a certain way and keep pretending you are a good person so easily. so people choose the facts which allow them to stop thinking most successfully. this won't have any impact on those people, like much of science.

to everyone else, this is neither here nor there. you always thought it was wrong but hated the sin not the sinner (you can be gay but no gay sex ever), or you thought homosexuality is acceptable and didn't care much whether it was a choice or it was biological.
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you would have thought observable evolution would convince people that evolution is in fact correct, but just look at that thread! the same goes for this.
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Which means that sexuality is determined at birth.
Not necessarily. More research is needed to figure out whether this deviation present at birth. One theory (that seems a lot more logical to me personally) is that the brain "misses" or fails to properly undergo one of the many changes it goes through in preparation to adulthood. This same theory would also apply to other sexually deviant behavior.

EDIT: to clarify, such a change would not have to be "triggered" by some event that happened during a person's life, and it certainly would not happen just because the person consciously wanted it to. It's still something that you'd not be able to control in any way.
Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 08:25:46 pm by Dada
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- nothing has been proved, we knew how homosexual/heterosexual brains were different before, this just shows the full scope I guess

- the brains could be different because of behavioral/psychological aspects, this doesn't necessarily lead to any conclusions about the cause

- some homosexuals felt hey were born gay, some don't, they will never prove 100% of homosexuals were born gay

- even if you're not BORN GAY it doesn't mean homosexuality is a choice

- i can tell you without thinking about it that homosexuality is a lot more complex than brain size

- i hate n****rs n they was born with that skin
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What difference does it make?  Why is anyone researching this?  If someone wants to be an engineer, you don't have people saying "GOD DIDN'T INTEND FOR YOU TO BE AN ENGINEER."

This can ONLY lead to problems.  People are going to start judging children because they're supposedly hardwired to be gay. 

i'd be really interested if people were born engineers

this is important because gay related issues are usually big deals (marriage, uhhhhh... marriage...). if it turns out gay people are born gay then they can claim minority status i guess and become a protected group, but this will bring up EUGENICS and stuff

if it's simply a choice then they can choose to do something different and all their problems arising from being gay are a consequence of their own choices

so either way they're kinda buggered heh heh heh
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I for one think that you become a homosexual when you engange in homosexual activity, and then it becomes a choice, when you choose to do those actions. Just like murderers are murderers when they choose to murder people or engineers are engineers when they choose to engineer things. Cause you're not gay (or no one could tell if you are or not, so how would anyone else know/care) until you start doing gay things (ie dongs in the mouth.)

If other people didn't do anything, we wouldn't define them. How we define ourselves however.... thats much to philosophical to get into here, but in my own opinion the idea of people being inherently blameless for thier lifestyle/mindset based on physiology, eugenics, etc really REALLY should be viewed with the highest skepticism. Otherwise people will be like "I'm not lazy its the way my brain is shaped," and other things of that nature. Fatalism, boo.
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haha ryan yep you're right. way to go blitzen for completely spitting in the face of facts.
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A psychiatrist or something once told me that sexual orientation works on a "cline" rather than in three distinct groups. My example being that I'll think plenty of guys are hot but never want to actually bone one, while I do like humping girls.

? @ that being my example
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I for one think that you become a homosexual when you engange in homosexual activity, and then it becomes a choice, when you choose to do those actions. Just like murderers are murderers when they choose to murder people or engineers are engineers when they choose to engineer things. Cause you're not gay (or no one could tell if you are or not, so how would anyone else know/care) until you start doing gay things (ie dongs in the mouth.)

If other people didn't do anything, we wouldn't define them. How we define ourselves however.... thats much to philosophical to get into here, but in my own opinion the idea of people being inherently blameless for thier lifestyle/mindset based on physiology, eugenics, etc really REALLY should be viewed with the highest skepticism. Otherwise people will be like "I'm not lazy its the way my brain is shaped," and other things of that nature. Fatalism, boo.

what the fuck are you talking about. you're homosexual when you are sexually attracted to the same sex and not the opposite sex.
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I am just not one for such fatalistic arguments, because its like saying your brain physiology sets in stone the way you will behave and think, and I was always more optimistic, that people are capable of whatever they want to achieve in ways of doing or thinking or being, than we are supposed to be limited to by our physiology.

Really, my dislike for this theory has little to do with gays and more to do with the ability of one to shape his own psyche and self. It comes down the question that I have heard lots of gays pose, that we "can't change who we are", but I always have never given creedence towards that idea, and I think that people can change themselves in any way they like (short of growing back legs and stuff like that, but with science in the near future who knows).
Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 01:00:04 am by Blitzen
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haha ryan yep you're right. way to go blitzen for completely spitting in the face of facts.

This isn't a fact yet, it was a small test group of merely 90 people and is not proven yet (no matter what the horrible word-choice of a title for the thread says. :P)

It's very likely yes, but it is not 100% absolute yet. A much bigger test group would be needed.
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I am just not one for such fatalistic arguments, because its like saying your brain physiology sets in stone the way you will behave and think, and I was always more optimistic, that people are capable of whatever they want to achieve in ways of doing or thinking or being, than we are supposed to be limited to by our physiology.

Really, my dislike for this theory has little to do with gays and more to do with the ability of one to shape his own psyche and self. It comes down the question that I have heard lots of gays pose, that we "can't change who we are", but I always have never given creedence towards that idea, and I think that people can change themselves in any way they like (short of growing back legs and stuff like that, but with science in the near future who knows).

... i'm pretty sure this is not a theory. being gay is being naturally sexually attracted to the same sex. can you just will yourself to not need air to breath or to be sexually attracted to computer monitors?

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Or worse, finding a way to change it some time down the road so there's no more homosexuals. I doubt we'd ever reach that, but I could see some backwards country doing it eventually.

if this happens, gay couples will adopt gay kids which will keep the gays going and the straight couples will either: not care or ELIMINATE GAYS.

also cool. lucky me i guess. so if someones bisexual it means theyre mentally deficient for not being 100% gay or 100% straight? i hope it does.
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