Topic: [DIABLO 3 CONFIRME DOMGOGOGM]So the World Wide Invitational by Blizzard is going on right now... (Read 9961 times)

  • Avatar of Vellfire
  • TV people want to leave
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 13, 2004
  • Posts: 9602
I wasn't one of the ones talking about Diablo 2 being generic (even though I didn't enjoy it much), but what I want to know is what Diablo 2's innovation matters in Diablo 3...the things D2 created are pretty standard now, and even though it's because of D2, unless D3 steps up and continues the tradition of being innovative (if D3 set a new standard for PC RPGs), then what keeps it from being generic by today's standards?

Once again I'm not saying it is going to be generic because I haven't seen too much about it, I am just saying D2's innovations don't really give us much to assume about D3.
I love this hobby - stealing your mother's diary
BRRING! BRRING!
Hello!  It's me, Vellfire!  FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER! ... Bye!  CLICK!  @gidgetnomates
  • Will you walk the realms of Chaos with me?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 20, 2006
  • Posts: 3525
I've never played it, but it sounds like a mixture of Titan Quest and NWN. So, should I buy Diablo 3 it because the first in the series was the first generic dungeon crawler?

it wasn't the first generic dungeon crawler, it was just the first generic dungeon crawler that actually furthered the genre beyond just being a single player GO DOWN DUNGEOn...GET A DONG....COME BACK UP....or SLAY 1000000000 DEMONS FOR NO REASON AT ALL and actually had an expansive multiplayer and deeper customization. It actually has a world etc (a lot of people choose to ignore the lore tho given the genre, and don't even know that the world of Diablo is called Sanctuary).

Quote
I wasn't one of the ones talking about Diablo 2 being generic (even though I didn't enjoy it much), but what I want to know is what Diablo 2's innovation matters in Diablo 3...the things D2 created are pretty standard now, and even though it's because of D2, unless D3 steps up and continues the tradition of being innovative (if D3 set a new standard for PC RPGs), then what keeps it from being generic by today's standards?

Once again I'm not saying it is going to be generic because I haven't seen too much about it, I am just saying D2's innovations don't really give us much to assume about D3.

I'm pretty sure it will innovate the genre more and they haven't released these things (the lead guy said there is a lot more to come) simply because Blizzard never releases a product unless if its going to be different in some way. Look at how vastly different all 3 warcrafts are, or SC1 and SC2, etc. They always push the envelope in some way.
  • Genericism is the phoenix of originality.
  • Pip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Apr 18, 2008
  • Posts: 190
Yeah, Blizzard always make sure they do something to re-create the genre, instead of making sequels for no reason (i.e. Bioware).
Upon arriving the attending doctor could find no abnormal physical symptoms other than extremely dilated pupils. After spending several hours terrified that his body had been possessed by a demon, that his next door neighbor was a witch, and that his furniture was threatening him, Dr. Hofmann feared he had become completely insane.
  • Guild Wars Vet.
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: May 5, 2006
  • Posts: 592
Yeah, Blizzard always make sure they do something to re-create the genre, instead of making sequels for no reason (i.e. Bioware).

The only sequel Bioware has ever made was Baldur's Gate 2 (NWN2 & KOTOR2 = Obsidian).  Blizzard always makes sequels.
Yay! Random words!

"Hey don't hotlink images for your avatar. Upload it in GW Uploader or imageshack or something"
  • S-Mart Employee
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2005
  • Posts: 35
Blizzard has 3 successful game franchises, what more do you want?

Personally, I always enjoyed Diablo over MMORPGs because I like the feeling of accomplishing the story rather than "GO FIND MY HAIRPIN LOL".

Hopefully Angels will be a class, I want to kick some ass as Tyrael.


  • Developer of "Eternal Conflict" Series
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 19, 2006
  • Posts: 784
Quote
Personally, I always enjoyed Diablo over MMORPGs because I like the feeling of accomplishing the story rather than "GO FIND MY HAIRPIN LOL".

Yeah, most MMO's there isn't really any goal other than get to level xx, get y gear, and pvp with Z until board, whereas Diablo, actually had a goal.  (1 Kill Diablo, 2 Kill the three evils)

I will admit, that I will probably buy this when it hits shelves.  And I will say this: It looks like they made the game a bit more user friendly.  In 2, I found it a bitch to switch between hotkeys (since they only selected the spells, not used them)  Oh, well.  I'm already saying whats been said anyways, so...
  • Avatar of Dead Phoenix
  • Gigantic Megaman danceing time!
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 22, 2003
  • Posts: 438
Blizzard has 3 successful game franchises, what more do you want?
How about an new, original game?  1998 was the last time they made an original game, and lets face it, Starcraft is pretty much just Warcraft in space.

I guess it'd probably to much to hope for the battle system to actually be fun this time around, so I'm not really looking forward to this one.
  • Avatar of Damug
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Jul 27, 2005
  • Posts: 82
I am looking forward too this game alot for many reasons. To begin with my guild on WoW is only just starting Black Temple, and if we even finish Sunwell before the new expansion it's not like we "beat the game". Yet, on D2 the first time you raped Diablo you were pumped, but then you were given the task to defeat Baal, and after vanquishing him you KNEW IT WAS OVER. The excitment of defeating all the prime evils by yourself on Hell Mode.

Battlenet then kept the game going by allowing you to make your character and play worldwide. Nothing was more fun than my old Lite Sorc and going through Uber Tristrams, Chaos Runs, Baal Runs, or Dueling Leagues with. Well, nothing except for enjoying the massive beatdown we gave to retards in public dueling games.

If Blizzard, which I am sure they are, delivers like they did in D2 this game will be a massive hit. And what a time to release it, WoW is going strong and WoltK is on it's way. SC2 is making it way towards debut, and now with all the massive attention on Blizzard they announce D3.
  • Will you walk the realms of Chaos with me?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 20, 2006
  • Posts: 3525
How about an new, original game?  1998 was the last time they made an original game, and lets face it, Starcraft is pretty much just Warcraft in space.

They pretty much have what they do covered?

I don't know what you're saying, I guess. Why should they leave their element for the sake of "making a new original game?" They are good at MMORPGs (WoW.), RTS (WC, SC), and Dungeon Crawlers (Diablo), and probably platformers when you factor in Blackthorne and Lost Vikings. Their racing game was totally average. They stick to what they know, and there's not much they can do in either of what they know without being too samey with what they already make.

EDIT:
Also StarCraft is way more than WarCraft in Space. They focus on two completely different RTS factors, especially with WarCraft 3 and StarCraft. One is more micro, the other is more macro.
  • Avatar of Dead Phoenix
  • Gigantic Megaman danceing time!
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 22, 2003
  • Posts: 438
They pretty much have what they do covered?

I don't know what you're saying, I guess. Why should they leave their element for the sake of "making a new original game?" They are good at MMORPGs (WoW.), RTS (WC, SC), and Dungeon Crawlers (Diablo), and probably platformers when you factor in Blackthorne and Lost Vikings. Their racing game was totally average. They stick to what they know, and there's not much they can do in either of what they know without being too samey with what they already make.

EDIT:
Also StarCraft is way more than WarCraft in Space. They focus on two completely different RTS factors, especially with WarCraft 3 and StarCraft. One is more micro, the other is more macro.
So they are good at what they do, I won't argue with that(I do actually like WarCraft and StarCraft, hell i even like Rock & Roll Racing), but I don't see why that means they can't make a new one.  With their track record I would expect it to be pretty good at least.

SC may be quite a bit different from WC3, but not so much WC2 which was the game I was referring to.
  • Comrade!
  • PipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 1, 2003
  • Posts: 222
on the comparisons between blizz games, thats why i like them so much. on the surface, you can this about any blizzard game:

"Yeah, its just a dungeon-crawler"
"Yeah, it's just a strategy game"

but when you play them, they get so much deeper as you play them. They grow on you and offer things other games in the genre can't. And as you grow in the game, you discover the intricacies and the details of the game that make it complex.

For example, you find that specializing in a skill tree is effective in Diablo2. You find that trading online, you are able to create a super-character. You find that the little things, such as attack animations and movement speed, things that are generally not considered important in RTS games, are incredibly important.

You can argue that warcraft 3 or starcraft aren't good games, but it is impossible to argue that they don't have some of the best controls and responsiveness of any games in the genre. They really set the bar with their titles, which is why all the hype and expectations.



and on the "make a new game" topic:

yeah. because of the sheer size of blizzard, i'd kind of expect their development to be a bit better now... but what other genres should they take a stab at?

theyve done...

-rts (best company for this, undoubtedly)
-mmorpg (also likely best company for this)
-hacknslash (dittooo)
-fps (epic fail)
-racing (meh)
-platforming/puzzle (good, but old)

guess i'd like to see them revisit the puzzling/platforming. But agian, this wouldn't be a new franchise, likely another lost vikings would be amazing enough...
  • Will you walk the realms of Chaos with me?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 20, 2006
  • Posts: 3525
So they are good at what they do, I won't argue with that(I do actually like WarCraft and StarCraft, hell i even like Rock & Roll Racing), but I don't see why that means they can't make a new one.  With their track record I would expect it to be pretty good at least.

SC may be quite a bit different from WC3, but not so much WC2 which was the game I was referring to.

It's fairly different in that WC2 used generic RTS elements all the way through and made them perfected (neither faction has anything unique for it besides different units) and SC has different races. ie: Terrans floating ships and nukes, Zerg multiple spawn units and infestation, Protess shields and mind control which basically created the first mastered and well balanced RTS with multiple races that were more than just reskins and changed numbers.

What I was saying was that the only reason they do these things good is because that is what the people working there are experienced in. They already have experience in RPGs (Diablo), so going to an MMORPG isn't that much of a stretch if you research the games (which they did.). There just really isn't that much they can do in what they know that won't be samey, and when they try to do what they don't know it gets canned because it's shit which isn't acceptable for them (see: StarCraft: Ghost.). They also only have really one big lore guy who is juggling 3 lores already. All their games have big lores.
  • Avatar of Dead Phoenix
  • Gigantic Megaman danceing time!
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 22, 2003
  • Posts: 438
It's fairly different in that WC2 used generic RTS elements all the way through and made them perfected (neither faction has anything unique for it besides different units) and SC has different races. ie: Terrans floating ships and nukes, Zerg multiple spawn units and infestation, Protess shields and mind control which basically created the first mastered and well balanced RTS with multiple races that were more than just reskins and changed numbers.
Yes I know the differences between the games and they did a great job with both, but SC was still not a big departure from WC2(WC3 did a pretty good job of this though).

Quote
What I was saying was that the only reason they do these things good is because that is what the people working there are experienced in. They already have experience in RPGs (Diablo), so going to an MMORPG isn't that much of a stretch if you research the games (which they did.). There just really isn't that much they can do in what they know that won't be samey, and when they try to do what they don't know it gets canned because it's shit which isn't acceptable for them (see: StarCraft: Ghost.). They also only have really one big lore guy who is juggling 3 lores already. All their games have big lores.
Wasn't ghost being made by someone else(I think it even changed teams a couple times)?
I don't see why this keeps them from making something new, hell I'm not even suggesting they make the next DMC or something, there are plenty of ways they could make an RPG or Strategy game that would use the skills they have and allow them to do lots of new stuff.  As for the lore, so what?  If the guy can't handle more then 3 lores, its not like someone else couldn't handle a few on their own as well, I'm sure the company won't collapse under the weight of having to many lores.  That is even assuming a new game would have to have its on huge lore(if it becomes a series they should, but a one-off game wouldn't need it so much).
  • Avatar of headphonics
  • sea of vodka
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 24, 2003
  • Posts: 6432
Quote
I'm pretty sure it will innovate the genre more and they haven't released these things (the lead guy said there is a lot more to come) simply because Blizzard never releases a product unless if its going to be different in some way. Look at how vastly different all 3 warcrafts are, or SC1 and SC2, etc. They always push the envelope in some way.
this is kinda suspect because literally everything we've seen and everything that faggot narrator in the trailer said points to exactly the opposite.  the previous two games didn't really CHANGE as you progressed through them, so when all i hear from him is barbarians with awesome raw strength and also you use the same abilities over and over while killing hundreds of zombies in uninspired locales, i'm inclined to think it doesn't go much deeper than that.

you just wrote this giant paragraph that to be honest i could not even finish but what i got out of it was that BUT DIABLO INVENTED THIS STUFF!!!  who cares, man?  everything you rattled off is par for the course at this point in time, so it doesn't really matter who invented it.  you can say it'll go much deeper but, being completely honest, you sound like a rabid fanboy in this entire topic so i'm inclined to take anything you say on the subject with a very small grain of salt.  to me, it doesn't look like it WILL go much deeper, because previous games haven't, and their whole DESIGN PHILOSOPHY that he went into in the video doesn't make it seem like it will.

also, saying it'll be different/relevant because blizzard is great and always adds stuff/pushes the envelope is a little silly, because they don't, really.  i mean, they add a BARE MINIMUM amount of stuff and push the envelope in the most superficial ways possible, but the handful of uninspired new features they're probably going to add won't stop this from just being a rehash of a decade-old game that only people who already somehow still love diablo will try to justify as PUSHING THE ENVELOPE.  i can see the sequence of events that's going to take place like a year down the road or whatever very clearly, and it is just diablo 3 comes out, is virtually identical to diablo 2 except for some minor changes, diablo fans laud it as another successful attempt by blizzard to both innovate and reinvent the genre when it's essentially just a remake with a new graphical sheen and a couple new features that do absolutely nothing to change the core gameplay or alleviate the intense repetition and all around one-notery of the game.  i'm looking forward to it, actually!
Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 11:17:15 am by headphonics
  • I wander alone
  • Pip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Sep 20, 2003
  • Posts: 150
Don't forget guys that even though you see the things the way they are now, they can always make changes for the final product(maybe making it "darker" like a lot of people asked?!).

Yeah, it gets really repetitive. So what? As long as this game is as addictive through the online experience like the first two then this game has served its purpose despite being the same "thing" over and over. I've waited a long time for this and I will definitely get this when it comes out. I hopeexpect for a 2009 release though.

  • Will you walk the realms of Chaos with me?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 20, 2006
  • Posts: 3525
Quote
Wasn't ghost being made by someone else(I think it even changed teams a couple times)?

Yes, but is still had Blizzard people working on/overseeing/applying their philosophy to it.

Quote
this is kinda suspect because literally everything we've seen and everything that faggot narrator in the trailer said points to exactly the opposite.  the previous two games didn't really CHANGE as you progressed through them, so when all i hear from him is barbarians with awesome raw strength and also you use the same abilities over and over while killing hundreds of zombies in uninspired locales, i'm inclined to think it doesn't go much deeper than that.

I don't think it'll change as it gets further either beyond skills, but I think they are leaving stuff out, possibly a new crafting system besides the Cube, etc.

Quote
also, saying it'll be different/relevant because blizzard is great and always adds stuff/pushes the envelope is a little silly, because they don't, really.  i mean, they add a BARE MINIMUM amount of stuff and push the envelope in the most superficial ways possible, but the handful of uninspired new features they're probably going to add won't stop this from just being a rehash of a decade-old game that only people who already somehow still love diablo will try to justify as PUSHING THE ENVELOPE.  i can see the sequence of events that's going to take place like a year down the road or whatever very clearly, and it is just diablo 3 comes out, is virtually identical to diablo 2 except for some minor changes, diablo fans laud it as another successful attempt by blizzard to both innovate and reinvent the genre when it's essentially just a remake with a new graphical sheen and a couple new features that do absolutely nothing to change the core gameplay or alleviate the intense repetition and all around one-notery of the game.  i'm looking forward to it, actually!

tbh even if that was just what it was I would look forward to it simply for the new customization metagame, the new trading metagame and community, etc. Basically what a majority of people play it for anyways. As it is they cleaned they ladder on D2 and after hearing this I immediately rebought it because I'm an idiot and working on building a HC Light Sorc. Need to try and get some perfect high end shit atm since the ladder reset stuff like perfect Hotos, and shit are going to be worth insane amounts of money again.

A new building & item metagame would be most excellent.
  • Avatar of Happy HELLoween
  • Dad Squad
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 4, 2002
  • Posts: 881
One thing that bugs me about this game is that they took Diablo in the exact same direction Flagship took Mythos... D3 even has a lot of the tweaks that Mythos makes to the forumla like the loot system.

It also looks like they took alot of design choices from Mythos as well.

hah yeah man, but mythos sucks. it just isn't fun to play.
http://itch.io - sell your indie games
  • Will you walk the realms of Chaos with me?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 20, 2006
  • Posts: 3525
yeah, Mythos was alright at the start but towards the middle and end it gets so boring. The classes have nothing good going for them in a group, they all were built around soloing first. Lamee.

The test version of it is okay I guess, but it's still kinda bad.
  • Avatar of xanque
  • The Corrector
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 15, 2002
  • Posts: 741
The game looks neat.  There are a lot of cool effects.

But why can't games like this make each baddy look unique?  Would it really be that hard?  Change some subtle things, like the shape of the face, colors, and maybe add a mustache to a few of the skeletons.  They all look identical, which made sense back when the enemies were pixelated, but now they're 3-dimensional, so these kinds of changes would be easy and not take up much extra space.
  • Avatar of Grogrog
  • Master of ALL the moogles!
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Dec 31, 2002
  • Posts: 330
I'm semi excited about D3, never really played the first two (by the time I played D2 it was already too old of a game and couldn't keep me entertained). That being said, knowing D3 is a long while away, can anybody recommend me any PC dungeon crawlers? Preferably something that can be played online with friends, preferably free or .