it isn't even obsessive hardcore man, its not like uber french know the exact drop rates of every single item in the game to the exact decimal or something. It's building a character to be the best it can be. In the end it becomes less about the monsters you are slaying, and the character you are making (heh...that rhymed..). Getting a maxed out Bone Necro, a Glass Cannonzon etc is very fulfilling to us because you've reached the peak of your characters potential. It isn't HARDCORE at all, pretty much if you know any builds in this game and try to build one you are taking part in this, or working towards it."I am going to build a blizz sorc" is all it takes to get started, then you have to get stuff to build a blizz sorc. It isn't like other dc's were its just about OH WELL GET TO BOTTOM OF DUNGEON or OH WELL SLAY 1000000 ENEMIES FOR NO REASON AT ALL, it's about the character building, whether that's you building as best a blizz sorc as you can without grinding too much, or doing the Hellforge quest over 600 times to get amazing runes thru the Cube. That's pretty much the best part of Diablo is the character depth and customization aspects (tons of options, etc), even if you only know the basics or if you know the insane stats. Titan Quest did a pretty okay job at this, but the rest of the game had so many down falls in it, which is what makes D2 special, the rest of the game doesn't suck. Add in mods (like Eastern Sun) etc to the mix and you can have a near unlimited amount of character building to last you a life time. All i was saying is that by "just playing with friends" or whatever for fun, you are missing out on this. You guys could build your characters to be a team build and flow with each other, but I bet you aren't! I guess its instead of just replacing items on your guy because they have better stats, you actually have an end game plan and build, and work towards that, instead of just hitting the end game and being all "yes this wep is a whole +4 better than my wep" and replacing it without a thought.

But my point is, we're basically just playing for the gameplay and experience. I literally just want to crawl through dungeons. Some of my best experiences were Baldur's Gate and Champions of Norath for the PS2, my dad and I would play them so much. We didn't use guides or look up builds, but we had a shit ton of fun. We would do what we could to help each other build wise, if one character was lacking in something the other would compensate. We would trade items when need be, etc. That's what I'm looking for.

I'm not up for spending hours on GameFAQs looking at builds. When it comes down to it, Diablo II isn't a very deep or complex game by any means. It has a talent tree, and it has a shit ton of items (correct me if there's anything else I need to take into consideration). Like I said, Diablo II is dated, if I wanted to do min/maxing I would be playing Guild Wars right now or something. I'm just saying that because you play a game a certain way, doesn't mean that it is part of the game in a major way, and others are missing out. I could say that you are taking the game to far and ruining it for yourself by studying builds and farming for items just to become that much better.

I'm not up for spending hours on GameFAQs looking at builds. When it comes down to it, Diablo II isn't a very deep or complex game by any means. It has a talent tree, and it has a shit ton of items (correct me if there's anything else I need to take into consideration).

Runes.
Gems.
Runeword combinations.
Skill tree bonuses.
Synergies.
Crafting
etc.

more to it then that bub.

I don't really get how a game being dated = you can no longer min/max in it or something. You seem to not like old games which is kind of sad, who cares if the graphics suck or whatever. The games you play now already look like shit I guarantee it a month down the road. Guild Wars especially is already dated and looks pretty bad (and also has no min/maxing aspects at all, so bad example.). I don't see how I or anyone else (read: millions of people) who do this are ruining it for ourselves since we obviously still play the game after all these years for hours and hours and enjoy it? It is still an aspect of the game you are missing out on, even just the basic parts of it.

on the subject of D3 they've said they don't have a final # of classes so the FAQ is wrong, but tbh I expect 5. Barb, Doctor, a sorc like class, a long range like class, and a rogue like class imho.

Runes.
Gems.
Runeword combinations.
Skill tree bonuses.
Synergies.
Crafting
etc.

more to it then that bub.

I don't really get how a game being dated = you can no longer min/max in it or something. You seem to not like old games which is kind of sad, who cares if the graphics suck or whatever. The games you play now already look like shit I guarantee it a month down the road. Guild Wars especially is already dated and looks pretty bad (and also has no min/maxing aspects at all, so bad example.). I don't see how I or anyone else (read: millions of people) who do this are ruining it for ourselves since we obviously still play the game after all these years for hours and hours and enjoy it? It is still an aspect of the game you are missing out on, even just the basic parts of it.

on the subject of D3 they've said they don't have a final # of classes so the FAQ is wrong, but tbh I expect 5. Barb, Doctor, a sorc like class, a long range like class, and a rogue like class imho.

I never said I don't like old games, I just find when it comes to old games you have to have played them when they originally came out, or at least a while ago. And even then, you can usually find newer and better games. Wait a minute, how can you even say it seems like I don't like old games? Did you not notice the entire fallout theme going on? That's a game I'd rather play than D2 when it comes to min/maxing (but you could argue it's not online but whatever I don't care right now).

It also seems like half the things you mentioned have to do with socketing items, once again, related to items.  Is what I'm saying is that there are different ways to play a game. Diablo II is outdated, and the only reason why I'm playing it is because I want a dungeon crawler that I can play with my friends. The reason why YOU play it is because it's a game that you played back in the day, that has grown onto you, a game that you like to customize and blah blah blah. That's the way you (and lots others like to play). But not me and my friends. Are we missing out? No. We're just playing the way we want to play.

edit:

I thought of a semi-decent example. Ever played Gunz the duel? 3rd person shooter. Well in that game you can play normally, or you can learn a bunch of glitches and play k-style (ugh) which greatly increases your playing ability. K-style took a lot of skill to be able to do fully though. People who play k-style are playing the metagame I guess, where as non users are just playing normally. Nothing wrong with either.

ive never played the diablo series but this looks like world of warcraft from an rts perspective (ahah look at this noob saying this looks like wow when actually wow derives from this1?!?!) but it looks really cool and i am digging it. its just gonna be hard playing and seeing the witch doctor do some misc spell that is pretty much fear from WoW (or it is engraved in my mind as a wow spell). Oh well looks cool and i wont have to invest months slash get kicked out of guilds for not being online all the time. sweet.

Hey! Fear is actually a very old mechanic for crowd control. It's in most games where crowd control is even a factor.... including Diablo 2... where it took the form of the Necromancer curse "Terror".... the Necromancer being a nearly Identical class to the Witch Doctor (aoe/debuff/minion).

I'm trying to figure out what the classes will likely be in this.

Barbarian and Witch Doctor are in, and there are three others.. I'm going to go ahead and guess Paladin, Amazon/Archer/Whatever, and Sorceror/Sorceress.

It would be cool if they had the Rogue class again, only this time it could actually be a rouge and set traps and shit. Like a combination of Amazon and Assassin.

Hay, wat lvl is ur woodcuttingg? Mien is abot lvl 34 it's kinda hi.

But to stay on subject I actually hope they get another class similar to the paladin. As over-powered as it could get with special tweaks online it was probably the most entertaining class.

And there where so many different archetypes... let alone builds. FoHers, Smiters, Chargers, Zealer, Hammers... I loved them all. Zealers where expensive as hell to make though. Since I always traded off the items I needed to make a BoTD... the only weapon I had for my Zealer was a Schaefer's hammer (a former godly weapon I used to be proud of... much like Windforce).

Which reminds me.... patches suck. I used to love my Bowzon back when guided arrow + pierce meant arrows would go through the victim and come back. Especially if you had knockback and slow (I had Nosferatu's Coil and a crafted 3/3 duel leach, +3 bow skill, and knockback gloves). You didn't even have to aim. You just shot somewhere in their vicinity and they would get tossed around like a rag doll.

Then (09 I think) came around and the character became useless.

hammerdins are ftw.

I'm a big fan of Bone Necs and Light Sorcs and Hammerdins.

hammerdins are ftw.

I'm a big fan of Bone Necs and Light Sorcs and Hammerdins.

Ah, I made a meleemancer using bonespear's synergies (also adds to bone armour) and the runeword that provides a chance to cast bonespear on striking as well as some other nice mods. Oh, D2 <3.

That being said I'm quite excited for D3.

Stop posting.

:edit:

This is completely off topic, but God of War was nothing but suped up rip off of Rygar for PS2. I just had to say it since it doesn't get said enough.

where the fuck do you see GOD OF WAR in there.

Orbs were around like before God of War (hellot Devil May Cry), and were around before that as anything you pick up for +life in RPGs and action games. Pretty much every single move the barb even used he used in D2, so I don't really get what you're talking about at all!