Ok so I was watching a Louie theroux thing last night from the 90's where he stayed with some "Patriots" and I found it interesting. Essentially these are people who believe that the New World order (UN) are infringing on the constitution of the united states, and so they've moved up to the mountains to live self sufficiently, avoid paying taxes, whatever in the hope that the NWO will leave them alone. A place (or places) where they can live their own lives, however when the time comes, everybody in the communes must bare arms to defend against the military. Fuck one of them had the same backstory as Cobra Commander!
This means of course that it's something of a breeding ground for right-wing crazies, racists and gun nuts. Essentially Paulsies. But there are different groups. You have the white supremists who the main group try to stay away from, the constitutional militias, the christian patriots etc. There's also the cult side such as Branch Davidian (Waco).

It's really interesting to me that people will do this, living in England there's a general attitude of not caring too much about anything, but in America there seems to be paranoid crazies who will get up and leave over just about anything big or small. I even hear that they believe guns are important to them as Tea is to us... so WHOAH!

How can anyone think a weapon is that important?

Well, there's a lot of americans here who'd possibly maybe know more about this could fill me in? Any cool documentaries to watch about these guys? Better yet anybody here who actually agrees with them in some way?

(Also I know about that Jonestown stuff, that was truely horrifying/disgusting)

The New World Order is a conspiracy theory and these people are just paranoid and confused giving how rapidly government policies change.  As far as I'm concerned they're freeloading illegals since they're stirring trouble and not paying taxes but there's nothing you can do about them outside of shooting them and that's a bit extreme.

I did see this one documentary about a bunch of guys who tried to get Texas to secede from the government in the 90s.  I forgot what it was called but it's kind of interesting to note that it was a fairly large group of people.
 

the New World Order is a pretty unconvincing conspiracy theory. Governments can't even control sex scandals leaking in the media, so the idea that they all secretly work for some group of superleaders (The Bilderberg group seem to be one of the most popular possible groups of "real" world leaders among whackos) is just unplausable.

Where's KK4 when you need him?

Where did you hear about the Cobra Commander backstory story?  I want to know more!

Although the right to carry a weapon is something that a lot of people take seriously in the United States, I think problems like so-called "constitutional" militias and extremist groups are a bi-product of our government's use of fear tactics to manipulate the general populace.  Ever since the threat of nuclear war came to the forefront of national consciousness during the Cold War there has been a growing sense of reliance upon the government to keep its people safe from every feasible threat, which is exactly the type of fantastical ideal that a lot of Americans will embrace without a second thought.

Citizens of the United States place importance upon the ability to protect themselves, but they put the most important responsibilities in the hands of the people in power.  Our government is supposed to be orderly, knowledgeable, powerful, and fully capable of defending itself and its citizens under any and all circumstances.  When the people in our government fail (as they usually do) or the idea that they are even somewhat influenced by outside sources becomes prevalent then there is a tendency for dissident groups of wackos to run to the hills and prepare for armageddon.

If you're concerned about inalienable rights such as privacy, liberty and safety then the United States is not exactly the most comfortable place to be living right now.  The current administration has a new form of propaganda at their disposal with the dastardly threat of TERRISM, and after 9/11 there are a lot of people out there who really will go home and affix plastic over their windows with duct tape just because the White House says so.  The administration is wielding this power like an unruly child and as a result people are losing faith in the governmental powers that be and the basic idea that we are safe and happy in our capitalistic little haven.

Basically the people that make up these extremist groups came to rely a bit too heavily on the government to provide them with protection and freedom and it failed them.  They've taken it into their own hands to live up to their malformed concept of what living in the United States should be like and they're preaching it to whoever will listen and follow.  They're paranoid and idealistic, but the scary part is that they have guns in their hands and they think that they know what's right.  Their weapons represent the power that the government has either taken away from them or thrown away altogether by practicing diplomacy with other nations. 

I guess it would be a bit hard to understand for someone who doesn't live here, but these little militant groups hardly ever pose a tangible threat to anyone but themselves.  If they want to carve out a peaceful little existence on the side of a mountain somewhere and leave everyone alone then more power to them.  If they try to fuck with society in any way then the government will burn them to the ground and all of us normal citizens will watch the documentary on the Discovery channel.

I would recommend Bowling for Columbine, which is one of Michael Moore's early documentaries, if you want to get a bit more insight into the role that guns play in our culture and just how wacky some people get over them.

I read that for every 100 people in the US, there are 90 guns.

Here it is: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828

This is outside law enforcement and military.

Yeah one of them had his business destroyed and his family damaged by the taxes so on that alone he moved up to the mountains to fight the US Government.. Which is a major overreaction to me, I don't know how you guys'd see it.

The land is basically the government's, so by living there and refusing to pay taxes/whatever, aren't they just provocing them?

I find it ironic how the citizens rely on the Government to secure their safety and land when the orignal idea behind securing ones freedoms, rights, and land would be in the hands of the very citizens themselves when the U.S. originally formed.

Yeah dude, but that was back in the day when it actually made a difference to a lot of people if you held a gun in your hand.  When the United States was initially formed both the people who fought for the government and the people who fought for themselves were on a level technological field.  Today the government possesses weapons so deadly that only a government could possess them and it is the citizen's role to rely on the government to wield the power responsibly.  The only part that Americans seem to forget about as a society is that it is also the responsibility of the people to revolt if the government is abusing its power.

Yeah one of them had his business destroyed and his family damaged by the taxes so on that alone he moved up to the mountains to fight the US Government.. Which is a major overreaction to me, I don't know how you guys'd see it.

Some people want to be some sort of patriotic hero and fight for what they believe in even if does only make them just another zealot in a small and completely insubstantial group of fuckwits.  Personally, I'm just staying here long enough to get my college degree and then I'm moving to Canada. 

I read that for every 100 people in the US, there are 90 guns.

Here it is: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828

This is outside law enforcement and military.

guns are fucking awesome and there's nothing wrong with this.  i go to the range with my buddies every weekend and shoot 1,000 rounds it's awesome and relaxing.  we also started a skeet shooting club to work on our marksmanship.

where's the statistic that points out that for every whackadoo psycho with a gun there's 30 responsible and trained individuals who know how to use one properly?

ahahah marcus what a guy you are

b.....be careful what you say!!!!

he's a black guy with a gun!!!!

dude, marcus has killed a guy.

I can't see the responsible person arguement (a responsible person wouldn't have a gun, in my opinion). I don't really think people should be allowed to have guns, and that people who promote them as the ideal of american freedom need to realise that America gained independence like 230 years ago or something, and that certain principles that worked back then can no llonger apply to modern society. The fact that some people believe their entire country/culture is based around the prospect of violent revolution seems absurd.

That arguement has been shot to pieces so many times already, but basically countries with gun bans suffer less guncrime than America. Legal stores make guns more avaliable to the people, people who would not normally have guns, can obtain them with little hassle. Plus the old schoolshootout point, The school massacres would never happen if the guns weren't so easily obtained.

I don't think there would be some major prohibition trouble like with alcohol, because the only people who'd want to own guns in that sense are kinda pathetic. Alcohol is a very different thing because it isn't a weapon, and people use it for such a variety of reasons that to get rid of it is kinda stupid. Guns only exist for one reason, to hurt/kill, there wouldn't be anything like a public uproar (well there shouldn't be, but there are lots of idiots around)
Most countries have gang problems. Most countries have crazy people. Not having guns readily avaliable in street shops means they have to use more close/personal methods generally, it makes them easier to catch. Deterrence? these events aren't exactly common enough for a large number of households to have guns, or any. The police and justice system should be deterrent enough.
Correlation is not causation, but you can't ignore very obvious connections.

Oh my bad, I thought that this

Although idiots making poison and killing themselves

was in reference to the consumption of alcohol and thought you were saying alcohol is a POISON THAT KILLS and I got pretty offended....


I hearby remove my remark and apologize for my brash and belligerent behavior