they're certainly not the vehicle for a better tomorrow as they once were in the past(being one of the only places outside of churches where black and white people found common ground and brotherhood), but they're a lot better than nothing and should be supported.

the whole union response to the 'immigrant scare' is evidence of the incompetence of unions as being a form of revolutionary or politically progressive organization. The reaction isn't entirely unjustified but its a case of misplaced blame due to the lack of proper leadership.

regardless of how reactionary or corrupt they can be, they still provide a little bit of empowerment for members and a little bit of protection which can mean being able to stay in ones home this day and age. I've always appreciated the security I had when I had the opportunity to be in a union and I will never forget how fucking terrible it is to work for shitty people and getting fired("let go") over catching the flu because there was no representation.

I think communists should support strikes, regardless if they are led by union leadership or not. However, I do think unions are more of an obstacle (as they are integrated to the state), and as you said, unable to become organs of revolutionary activity. However, as I said, it is not "unions" who prevent people from getting fired, it is militant workers. It is like saying that the government prevents shitty working conditions by imposing labor laws, while it is not the government, but the militancy of workers.

unions are horrible for small buisinesses that aren't trying to screw over their workers imo

unions are horrible for small buisinesses that aren't trying to screw over their workers imo

every business is trying to screw over their workers unless they are some sort of collective or co-op. That's where profit comes from...

Marxism 101

america's proletariat is the most complacent one on the planet so yeah either the rest of the planet would have had to have already crumbled for that to happen or if it did the rest of the world would be majorly fuckedified

Thats false, small businesses like a 5-man refrigeration repair company would not try and screw over their workers. But unfortunently when it came to my dads business the workers screwed him over instead. Irony is though that they thought the gross pay was the actual profits his company obtained when thats just the pay before the deductions.

And his buisness was doing really well, he had practically every fast food restaurant in Alberta as a customer.

Your father owned the capital(the company, tools, etc) and employed the workers offering them a wage for their work.

Now it wouldn't be very smart for your father, as the business owner, to pay the workers wages that exactly matched the value of their labor would it? Where would his money come from? In order to get a profit to live off of and maintain capital, your father needs to pay his workers less than what their labor actually produces so he can make money off of their work. Follow?


This is how capitalism works! Workers are paid in the form of wages a value less than what their labor actually produces so the employer keeps the surplus value(the difference of what the labor was worth and what the laborers were paid) as profit. Workers get the raw end of the deal.

I'm backing what DC says 100% and if you get the chance to join a union then atleast check it out.

If they're worth a shit they'll look out for you and try to help you out. Yes, some are corrupt and some will fuck you over.

But I CLEARLY remember going to a union activist rally sort of thing up in DC two years ago where ted kennedy spoke and it was pretty cool. So our union is active but there is no reason to really riot and protest right now because things with our UNION RIGHTS are pretty much ok right now.

This is how capitalism works! Workers are paid in the form of wages a value less than what their labor actually produces so the employer keeps the surplus value(the difference of what the labor was worth and what the laborers were paid) as profit. Workers get the raw end of the deal.

this is straight up bull poop. ever tried making a shirt?
regardless every company isn't out to screw over their workers. the boss gets a higher wage to reflect increased responsibility and investment in the company, wages are divied out and the rest goes back into the company for expansion. sometimes when a company turns over a large profit and has no plans for growth workers are given a raise!

this is why there's differences in pay and we're not all getting minimum wage

i am sure moving stock in the computer is backbreaking labor

btw the most worthless capitalists are stock brokers. i dont think i can think about any more blatant parasite.

marmot its me, im gordon gekko, im displeased in what you said, post this fiv e times or ill come to your fathers house and fire his workers.

this is straight up bull poop. ever tried making a shirt?
regardless every company isn't out to screw over their workers. the boss gets a higher wage to reflect increased responsibility and investment in the company, wages are divied out and the rest goes back into the company for expansion. sometimes when a company turns over a large profit and has no plans for growth workers are given a raise!

You really haven't said anything specific about how Marx's analysis of surplus value is false. The example you gave just vindicates it, the boss gives himself more money(surplus value generated by the labor of the workers), pays the people who work for him an amount less than what their labor actually produced, and puts the rest of the money toward the maintenance of capital. I'm not saying that every person who is starting a business does so with fucking other people over in mind, but that's what ends up happening. Raises are a pretty recent phenomenon that started being a regular thing during the labor movement when workers starting demanding it. I don't think it changes the fundamental dynamics of the worker's relationship to capital.

this is why there's differences in pay and we're not all getting minimum wage

This used to be the case until the labor movement stood up to capital, and is largely still the case in the 3rd world where companies produce the most of what we buy in stores.

mabye ht boss deserves that money for making all thsoe filthy workers work toegether to make a shirt...

mabye ht boss deserves that money for making all thsoe filthy workers work toegether to make a shirt...

society would cease to function if there were no capitalists taking daring risks with their money, nobody would build anything, scientists would revert into retards, engineers would break down in tears without any instruction, there was no such thing as a shirt before capitalism.


america:love it or leave it

WHAT ABTOU GUNS.

YOU CANT BUILD A GUN!!!

WHAT ABTOU GUNS.

YOU CANT BUILD A GUN!!!

but i can roll my own cigarettes and brew my own beer.... i just need to make my own gun...

*lights cigarette with smoking barrel*