Hi my name is JOJOFACE, I have never heard of Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis, Sun Ra, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Theolonious Monk, George Duke, Frank Zappa, bob james, Weather Report, Al Di Meola, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Pierre Morelan or any other jazz and/or jazz fusion musician who has existed, and I am completely oblivious to the history of a musical style which has done nothing but break boundries and reinvent itself when it's on the verge of becomming stale. For me, when I think of Jazz I think of Wynton Marsalis.

ive got harsh words for some of those folks especially ornette coleman.

but fuck marsalis. i read miles davis's biography, dude was so disrespectful it made me ANGRY irl.

seriously tho you expecting jojoface to keep up with this when i bet he chewin on kenny g still (woulda namedropped him in place of marsalis even if yours is more fitting!)

coleman won a pulitzer last year if I remember right. most of the above are still performing or were around much more recently than you're thinking.

Emo is basically a made-up genre. It was all just a bunch of bad garage bands playing indie rock and either they or their fans still wanted to be associated with the HARDCORE scene so EMO was born

Hi my name is JOJOFACE, I have never heard of Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis, Sun Ra, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Theolonious Monk, George Duke, Frank Zappa, bob james, Weather Report, Al Di Meola, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Pierre Morelan or any other jazz and/or jazz fusion musician who has existed, and I am completely oblivious to the history of a musical style which has done nothing but break boundries and reinvent itself when it's on the verge of becomming stale. For me, when I think of Jazz I think of Wynton Marsalis.

Wash Cycle said "there is nothing groundbreaking being done by anyone in the emo genre". As in RECENTLY. As in NOW, THE PRESENT. So I took that and applied it to every other genre. Frank Zappa is dead, Miles Davis is dead, Weather Report has been around since like, the 70's man.

Oh, and just read Vale's comment. Yeah. And Coleman may have won a pulitzer last year, I don't know. But regardless, they did all of their "groundbreaking work" ages ago. I'm talking about NOW. What GROUNDBREAKING music is being made right now? It's all been done before.

Emo is basically a made-up genre. It was all just a bunch of bad garage bands playing indie rock and either they or their fans still wanted to be associated with the HARDCORE scene so EMO was born

thats retarded. emo had nothing to do with indie rock. wasnt until later the two were blended.

dude.


oh snap.

did you just challenge kaworu and me to list every innovative group right now?

are you sure you don't want to rethink this?

i could do this one hand behind my back with just hiphop alone.

you're kind of stepping into an area you got no business bein in bubbo.

fuck I'll do it with "classical" (not a real genre) music. apparently you want young men and women which btw is the stupidest thing ever. frank mccourt wrote angela's ashes at like 60. people get better as they get older and apparently being alive in the seventies invalidates you making groundbreaking stuff now. we'll also skip noise. lets see OFF MY MUSIC LIBRARY ALONE and minimalist composers.

gorecki is still around. arvo part. terry riley. is reich alive, lemme check wiki, he is, GLASS HEH, la monte young, john adams, is satie alive? i liked gymnopedies, JOHN CALE LOL.

and thats not a genre i know well at all. those were all big hitters, still around, in a genre you apparently dont know the meaning of please just take our word for it all those genres you've listed are moving ahead. your goal should be to prove emo is as well, not that the fucking blues are dead.

oh for the record jojo the only place groundbreaking shit is being done right now is so far out of your scope that you wouldnt even begin to comprehend it if you heard it

that said its not like I am into all this avant-garde shit that I listen to for kicks. in fact I listen to a lot of music that most people would consider pretty boring. but at the same time I tend to enjoy music for other reasons than it being 'groundbreaking' or whatever. I just used that word the way I did because I believe that 'emo' is a really stale group of bands and musicians that arent doing anything interesting or musically worthwhile.

you see, as a musician, I tend to listen to music that is more difficult than what I can myself play. so I can learn from it, and better myself as a musician. also by picking up on the grooves of many others I can blend it into my own groove and enrich myself as a person. and emo offers me none of this so I suppose I am pretty biased.

even if I didnt have that perspective though I'd probably think that all this stuff is objectively pretty shitty

on yet another small derail note I read the reason people call orchestral music "classical" (and believe me i know ORCHESTRAL is almost as bad a misnomer but I hope you know what I mean) was because the upper class wanted to appear cultured so they named Bach through Beethoven as "classical" so they could pretend it was from a better musical age.

aristocracy's a bunch of dopes.

you see, as a musician, I tend to listen to music that is more difficult than what I can myself play. so I can learn from it, and better myself as a musician. also by picking up on the grooves of many others I can blend it into my own groove and enrich myself as a person. and emo offers me none of this so I suppose I am pretty biased.

jesus christ.
I'm like, the complete opposite.

As a musician, I don't listen to stuff because it is better than me or much more complex. I listen to music that can emit feelings in good ways, subtle ways, artistic ways. Music that can emit a message in interesting, original ways.
They kind of help me in making my own songs.
It is all about the creative songwriting, and that doesn't imply weedley-weedly wee with you geetar or some impressive drum solo.

thats retarded. emo had nothing to do with indie rock. wasnt until later the two were blended.

all the "first wave" bands you posted were all basically indie(independent, not the imaginary genre)-rock bands with connections to the hardcore scene.

all the "first wave" bands you posted were all basically indie(independent, not the imaginary genre)-rock bands with connections to the hardcore scene.

seriously? indie rock is a genre dude.

And the first wave of emo groups WERE hardcore groups.

And the first wave of emo groups WERE hardcore groups.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're correct there, Jojoface. Emo did spawn DIRECTLY from Hardcore punk, pretty much.

Man, I absolutely love Cap'n Jazz, American Football, Texas is the Reason, The Promise Ring, etc.

seriously? indie rock is a genre dude.

Indie rock has always been shorthand for independent rock until recently when people started thinking of it as some kind of meaningless pseudo-genre that can be arbitrarily assigned to just about anything from the pixies to sufjan stevens.

And the first wave of emo groups WERE hardcore groups.

Not really, I really wouldn't lump Rites of Spring or Embrace in with Bad Brains, Black Flag, or Minor Threat, but w/e. Even if it were the case, why the need to create ANOTHER genre tag?


kids today love to make up and assign genres for so much shit that it just seems like a pointless exercise in frivolous bullshit. "emo" is particularly guilty of this because it's the most visible example of a pretty vague and arbitrary "genre" that gets argued about to absurd lengths because it doesn't have any real meaning outside of 'a bunch of rock bands associated with the hardcore scene who's song subjects had to do with the singers feelings instead of angry political themes'. Sorta like the whole "grunge" thing we had going on up here in seattle.

As a musician myself....

EDIT: Several Hours outta date and discussion has moved on but...

There's actually a really cool jazz scene that's only recent, kinda hard to describe, kinda... stoner-jazz? Somewhat descended from acid jazz, it's about dem trip/hip-hop beats(sometimes sampled from old jazz/funk) and the improvisation of jazz creating a really really down to earth street sound, really melancholic and shit. it's hinted on in Cujo-Adventures in foam, but Nostalgia 77-songs for my funeral is a really good example.
Also John Zorn is like the John Cage of jazz, so if you think it's just recycling the same motiffs then definately check out "The Dreamers" released this year.

I thought the indie label came to what it now meant because them alternate pop bands from a ten years ago thought themselves too edge and "obscure"(going platinum is a sure sign of obscurity) to be mere... pop music. Franz Ferdinand... they are so independent.

jesus christ.
I'm like, the complete opposite.

As a musician, I don't listen to stuff because it is better than me or much more complex. I listen to music that can emit feelings in good ways, subtle ways, artistic ways. Music that can emit a message in interesting, original ways.
They kind of help me in making my own songs.
It is all about the creative songwriting, and that doesn't imply weedley-weedly wee with you geetar or some impressive drum solo.

by better than what I can myself do doesnt necessarily mean in terms of technical ability and everything man. I also mean better than what I am emotionally capable of doing as well.

also another difference between you and I is that you can actually write music. I'm a drummer with no ability to play a melodic instrument so yeahhh