OK I give up. You have clearly decided that Blizzard did the whole change just to piss people off for fun and that the change will totally fuck up the game because there's no new content coming or anything like that.

Yeah because I totally said that.

No, but I do think they are doing it to pander to the PvP community (since it is a completely 100% focused PvP change that affects PvE and PvP nevermind the fact that Priests downranking is near vital in raiding) to stay and not go to WAR, not because it is imbalanced (it isn't). I am sure they will come up with something else, but if it really was an issue there is a ton of other changes that don't destroy one of the few bits of depth the actual PvP system has. Downranking has always been around and the system was originally created for it to happen - that is why spellcasters are given lower rank spells at all times, to conserve mana, which is why people downrank. People use Rank 1 Frostbolt because:
A - Casts fastest.
B - Is the cheapest version of the snare so it conserves their mana reserves.

Downranking is a necessity because unlike a Warrior or Rogues Rage or Energy, Mana can run out and doesn't become maxed out 5 seconds later. I can already tell you the Spirit changes as they are aren't going to be enough, and it is needlessly destroying some skills (Blizzard) only viability. This wouldn't be much of an issue if spellcasters weren't the life blood of every party. When your spellcasters OOM you are screwed because you lose a shit load of utility, damage, and heals.

I am quite sure after another 6 months Blizzard will balance it out, probably by homogenizing the classes even further and just giving every spellcaster a couple abilities that are all the same that they all have that all do the same thing to make up for it, but downranking isn't even a problem. With current (and if WotLK is any indication, future) Rogue overpoweredness, those stealth finders and cheap Snare are near needed.

It's a cheap band aid (if you wanted to do such a change, just make the actual utility less effective at lower ranks, ie: r1 frostbolt snares for less %, or about a hundred other better more elegant and more MAKES SENSE changes) to a non-existent problem, to pander to a group they fear losing or weakening, that has little benefits (I can't think of one actually.) with a ton of cons (making Rogues have less to worry about, less depth, less strategy, less thinking.). It's a not very elegant change that makes little to no sense and goes against and severely undermines one of their most important design choices.

There are hundreds of actual balance issues, and the expansion is only going to add to it. But yeah, let's focus on this non-issue that doesn't do anything bad for the gameplay at all. Because that's how you balance a game in non-StarCraft-Blizzard world apparently. A++.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=8991469384&postId=90047502350&sid=2000#179

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=8765576961&postId=87646483611&sid=2000#0

There's two posts from blues telling that the mana changes are not just some quick fuck up.

Doesn't address what GR/Mark/me was saying at all. We know they are changing it and it isn't some quick fuck up, but that wasn't the gist of what we were asking you.

EDIT:

Blizzard did say they would replace the spells where they saw it necessary but why is changing them necessary in the first place unless they thought HMM MAGES AND SHAMANS REALLY ARE DOING JUST TOO DARN WELL IN THE BETA

That Living Bomb is just so op....

The expansion comes with a lot of other changes than only the mana "normalization". There's lots of new talents and spells coming available, all classes get changed and I'm quite sure Blizzard will balance the new PvE content with the changes to mana in mind.

If you feel this change will totally kill class X then maybe you should go to the beta forums and tell Blizzard class X cannot function without a cheap fast casting snare.

The expansion comes with a lot of other changes than only the mana "normalization". There's lots of new talents and spells coming available, all classes get changed and I'm quite sure Blizzard will balance the new PvE content with the changes to mana in mind.

If you feel this change will totally kill class X then maybe you should go to the beta forums and tell Blizzard class X cannot function without a cheap fast casting snare.

We already know all the new talents and new spells. None of them really help out with this change.

It isn't just about the new PvE content, the old PvE content is affected too, and people still do them. You can't just throw in new talents and spells to remedy it (even though they haven't) unless if that stuff is accessible at old PvE content levels too. And then you have to spec for those new talents which can disrupt the balance of that content. And we all know Blizzard won't change shit with the old content now.

Really all this does is help Rogues (mostly - and I reiterate, we don't need it.) and melee classes (minorly) in PvP and hurts spellcasters everywhere. (they don't need to be hurt this bad).

It also won't kill a class, it doesn't work that way and even with this change you'd have to be a pretty poor player to think Mages are out of the running completely or something. They still have options, they just have a lot less and are a lot less useful in areas (something they DON'T need...Mages can use all the USEFULNESS they can get right now.) . But the point is and the reason why I think it's a stupid change is because it's a stupid change that has no real reason for being done. Not only is it against their original design and reasons for giving spellcasters multi ranks, but it isn't even an issue in PvP at all and is one of the few things that really define a part of the Mage class and other spellcaster classes.

If you feel this change will totally kill class X then maybe you should go to the beta forums and tell Blizzard class X cannot function without a cheap fast casting snare.

You mean the forums that only beta key holders can post on and on which lots of people more eloquent than me have pointed out how retarded this is design-wise only be to be ignored by developers even more thickheaded than you?

I'm going to jump in here on the whole downranking debate. What Verne is saying is that gaining a higher level of a skill and instead never using it and using a lower level instead is ridiculous and the game should be rebalanced so that is not the case. Verne isn't saying HEY TAKE AWAY DOWNRANKING BUT DON'T FIX BLIZZARD, in fact i'm sure the developers will find a way to make blizzard useful, they are fairly good at balancing the game no matter how much we complain, compared to other games world of warcraft is extremely balanced and I see no reason for it not to be.

World of Warcraft is terribly balanced and is about as balanced as Rock Paper Scissors is. (which isn't much at all but unfortunately some people think it is...) Yeah it beats every other MMO (cept Guild Wars if you count it as an MMO) in balance, but just because a piece of shit is on top of the shit pile doesn't make it any less a piece of shit.

If the only issue is: "gaining a higher level of a skill and instead never using it and using a lower level instead is ridiculous", then they could have just made the higher ranks more useful and leave things where they are now mana wise. Just because all the lower rank stuff costs more isn't going to make people use the higher rank stuff any more, it's still bloody useless but now the lower ranks don't do their original purpose very well either (conserving mana). If they want people to use the higher rank stuff more, make them more useful than the lower ranks. Make lower rank Frostbolts snare for less (5-10% and scale up to 40% as ranks go up), make lower ranks of Blizzard have a less bigger AoE effect and have the higher ranks cost less than they do currently, etc. They still serve the systems original purpose (conserving mana) but you get what you paid for (smaller mana = less snare % / less AoE), instead of paying more at the lower end for the same effect. That's just a CRAZY random solution totally concocted by me that I am sure doesn't make any sense at all (lower ranks not being as effective effect wise as higher ranks??? that's crazy!).

hey verne this just in but blizzard is REALLY BAD at fixing balance issues.

helos just trying the 10 day trial

hey verne this just in but blizzard is REALLY BAD at fixing balance issues.

Didn't they openly admit that the PVP was unbalanced at one point as well?

World of Warcraft is terribly balanced and is about as balanced as Rock Paper Scissors is. (which isn't much at all but unfortunately some people think it is...) Yeah it beats every other MMO (cept Guild Wars if you count it as an MMO) in balance, but just because a piece of shit is on top of the shit pile doesn't make it any less a piece of shit.

If the only issue is: "gaining a higher level of a skill and instead never using it and using a lower level instead is ridiculous", then they could have just made the higher ranks more useful and leave things where they are now mana wise. Just because all the lower rank stuff costs more isn't going to make people use the higher rank stuff any more, it's still bloody useless but now the lower ranks don't do their original purpose very well either (conserving mana). If they want people to use the higher rank stuff more, make them more useful than the lower ranks. Make lower rank Frostbolts snare for less (5-10% and scale up to 40% as ranks go up), make lower ranks of Blizzard have a less bigger AoE effect and have the higher ranks cost less than they do currently, etc. They still serve the systems original purpose (conserving mana) but you get what you paid for (smaller mana = less snare % / less AoE), instead of paying more at the lower end for the same effect. That's just a CRAZY random solution totally concocted by me that I am sure doesn't make any sense at all (lower ranks not being as effective effect wise as higher ranks??? that's crazy!).

yo read my post, they obviously won't leave blizzard as it is as they've already upped the crit rate

yo read my post, they obviously won't leave blizzard as it is as they've already upped the crit rate

Yeah but if it still costs roughly what it costs now and the lower ranks costs just barely less I still don't see that as being useful to anybody. (unless if they make the WotLK rank magically drop off suddenly on its mana usage.)

yo read my post, they obviously won't leave blizzard as it is as they've already upped the crit rate

Yo they didn't UP the crit rate, they ADDED crit rate, on live blizzard is a dot and you don't know what you're talking about. Nobody wants to use blizzard for aoe damage that is what the whole fire tree is for, we want to use it because it's the only instant ranged aoe we have for destealthing. Not to mention in arena aiming rank 1 blizzard beyond each side of an obstacle is basically our best spell to keep asshole pillar huggers in combat so they can't drink, pillars affecting mages the most of any class in the game (if you think hunters are hurt by pillars more than they benefit from them you have never played against a good hunter/druid 2v2).

As an example in nagrand arena a warrior druid team will always start behind one of their near pillars - the warrior wants to remain OOC because he laughs at sap but wants to charge, the druid is 90% of games stealthed next to the warrior here for the first 5-10 seconds while he sees what they're up against before moving to somewhere safer. The VERY BEST thing I can do currently is rush to the centre of the arena to blizzard beyond each side of the pillar the warrior's on, it takes away his charge opertunity and sometimes deprowls the druid. All good warriors know all good mages will do this and move to the opposite side of the pillar to where he predicts you'll do it so depending if you want to blizzard both far pillars you'll sometimes have to do like 6 pillar blizzards before the game even starts. If the game drags out (never will as mage/rogue but ALWAYS will as mage/priest) your very best method of stopping drinking is exactly the same technique.

I'm glad we'll be losing it!!

"I don't care I only use dragons breath, blastwave and ae on hyjal trash XD" - truth

it sure is a good thing you can spend 6/5ths of your Mana bar now at least.

"I don't care I only use dragons breath, blastwave and ae on hyjal trash XD" - truth

what i don't even play a mage

and i don't raid hyjal either

Shut up you play a hyjal fire mage (was thinking of bobjustbob who rerolled mage XD)

Well, I did a bit more exploring than I should've at level 9, including randomly jumping off some cliff and ending in a totally different area.

Now everytime I ressurect I'm jumped by a giant spider and a giant raptor, the res time is up to 6 minutes and I can't use my home stone in time.

Rez at a spirit healer.