so does anyone pvp here i.e. Arena?

me and mark got to 1700+ the other day

we play retri paladin(me)/frost mage(mark) in 2v2 (fuck you 'standard' setups) but we're gettin' it down and slowly getting higher rated. we also seem to beat a lot of warrior/druid which is NICE but we do pretty much get destroyed by warlock teams :<

so anyone or do you all just raid and stuff all the time?????? ??

I'm not really into a progression based pvp myself, and I hate respeccing to switch from pve to pvp talents, so I rarely play Arena and stick to raiding mostly.

PvP in WoW is too class based. X class in Y spec will 99.9% of the time beat L class in Z spec but get completely steamrolled by C class in E spec.

R-P-S sucks.

uh, heroics on my mage, arena/pvp on my warrior, dailies on both and i got my super casual guild started on kara, which i tank every weekend

well rogues who know how to play can beat anybody in 1v1 (like, duels) so yeah 1v1 is basically "who cares".

while there are like STANDARD or COOKIE CUTTER setups in arena, like warrior/druid 2v2, rogue/mage/priest 3v3, etc it's still fun if you have a good partner/s and beat people you shouldn't or just surprise yourselves. I know me and Mark have beaten teams we probably shouldn't have just due to teamwork and impeccable timing.

ya i think you guys are misinterpreting what I said I'm not talking about 1v1, I am talking about 2v2/3v3/5v5, in that assuming both teams are players of equal skill/gear, certain combinations will always beat other combinations barring unforseen shit (disconnection, massive random lag, etc.). that isnt to say a team can't lose because maybe the other team is just SUPER PRO but it's still very close to R/P/S.

this is why i like guild wars tho and why i only pvp in it soo

You make it seem like rogues are invincible in 1v1. I wish I had recorded the duel I had with BLiZZ's resto shaman.

lol so just resto shamans huh? The spec known for being even more insane for duelling than SL/SL warlocks

must suck there being a class with a build that can beat you. I mean you're a ninja.......

i enjoying losing to virtually every class 1v1 in an equal gear/skill setting

ok basically to expand on why I hate WoW PvP and its flaws (in my eyes) and how Blizzard could probably improve it (but won't):
*too many hard counters for everything. CoS = anti-Warlock, wow so cool. It's really dumb and adds to the R-P-S type-ness.
*Healers are built to heal for raidbosses which do more damage than a player ever will. Healing owns too much.
*DoT's are equally strong.
*No real self heal abilities for anyone who isn't a healer.
*Thanks to a single class, the game becomes constrained by forced roles. Even Talents don't fix this, because you're usually going to take 1 for PvE, and 1 for PvP. (Usually)

I know that's pretty gay to say because the only way they could technically fix all that would be a complete revamp of healers and every skill system for each class and shit and this will never happen, but thus is my problem with WoW's PvP.

Ideally, they would have to take a very divergent approach for the stand MMO, and remove/limit hard counters to a bare minimum. On top of this, revamp healers to be in touch with player damage, instead of NPC damage. Weaken the power of DoT's across the board, since they aren't removable, really. Add some DECENT form of self-heal to each class, allow dual classing. That wouldn't completely wtf fix it, but, it would greatly enhance it.

Hate to LAWL throw that game out there, but it really shows how Guild Wars was obviously built for PvP, and WoW has PvE in mind first. There are hard counters in Guild Wars, however, no one takes them, thanks to a limited skill bar size. There are no unremovable damage dealers, in fact all forms of degen are removeable, and thanks to using common mechanics and skill types, almost everyone can do this. Every class has a self-heal (of varying power), every class can rez (of varying power), every class can deal damage (of varying power), etc. Every class can do everything, but they do everything a bit different. Thanks to dual classing, you aren't forced into a role. The end result is a PvP game that plays more like something skill based, and less like "oh god no im a warlock and there's a rogue and i will never ever win this fight fuck" or "heh...i'm a warlock and that rogue's CoS is on recharge time to rape" or "GODDAMNIT I WISHI COULD BEAT WARLOCKS", and such.

I really wish they could invest the time and money to make their Tournament Realm so vastly different, and incorporate these changes, since it wouldn't hurt the main game. It's pretty alright as for as MMORPG PvP goes, but that isn't saying much.

well i'm not trying to say that wow pvp is flawless because it's far from it. however, as said before the game isn't balanced around 1v1, like the example with rogue vs warlock, in most cases yeah the rogue would win, but it becomes more balanced when you add other classes into the equation. e.g. stick a paladin with that warlock and make him cast blessing of protection on the warlock, voila, rogue = negated. likewise, stick a shaman with that rogue and he'll purge away the blessing.

basically what i'm trying to say is yes to some degree it's rock paper scissors, but because it's often a multitude of classes working together to some extent it lowers the problem. i understand your point though, and agree with you, especially about healing; as a retribution paladin, me trying to kill a healer solo is a complete waste of time and often just gives them opportunity to spam /lol at me.

the main thing i hate about wow's pvp is how far far more often than not, blizzard doesn't listen to it's community, in fact it seems like they IGNORE it and just buff/nerf whatever the fuck they please. like right now druids are just beyond ridiculous in 2v2 and 3v3 (they are still beatable but it's hilarious how long they can last), compared to say holy paladins who are locked down so easily they might as well /afk at the start of a lot of fights.

i don't know man, you hear some people whine and whine and whine about the same issue over and over and eventually they get it, how long did hunters beg for deadzone removal? how long did rogues asked for ShS to be worthwhile?

edit: also heres a big one: ret to be viable

how long did hunters beg for deadzone removal?

since the game was released so yea that bodes REALLY well. difference being thats a buff and so is the SHS buff, whereas what players are asking for now is a nerf and i guess blizzard doesn't want to piss off a large group of its players by forcing druids to require 2 hands to play again

also ret is viable now tbh, could do with some fixes but if you're not a retard you can pull it off. i do some pretty sick burst damage and there's judgement of justice, blessing of protection/sacrifice, etc random shit that's generally pretty good. though i dont know too much about pve, i'd say the 3% raid wide crit is reason enough to bring ONE ret pally, along with the extra blessing and the judgment refresh from crusader strike and the reasonable dps.

well i'm not trying to say that wow pvp is flawless because it's far from it. however, as said before the game isn't balanced around 1v1, like the example with rogue vs warlock, in most cases yeah the rogue would win, but it becomes more balanced when you add other classes into the equation. e.g. stick a paladin with that warlock and make him cast blessing of protection on the warlock, voila, rogue = negated. likewise, stick a shaman with that rogue and he'll purge away the blessing.

basically what i'm trying to say is yes to some degree it's rock paper scissors, but because it's often a multitude of classes working together to some extent it lowers the problem. i understand your point though, and agree with you, especially about healing; as a retribution paladin, me trying to kill a healer solo is a complete waste of time and often just gives them opportunity to spam /lol at me.

the main thing i hate about wow's pvp is how far far more often than not, blizzard doesn't listen to it's community, in fact it seems like they IGNORE it and just buff/nerf whatever the fuck they please. like right now druids are just beyond ridiculous in 2v2 and 3v3 (they are still beatable but it's hilarious how long they can last), compared to say holy paladins who are locked down so easily they might as well /afk at the start of a lot of fights.

ya, i'm not really talking about 1v1 tho. Even in anything higher there's still a very integral R-P-S. Yeah it lessens it because OH MAN MY PRIEST IS SO DOPE HEALED ME FROM THAT FAG ROGUE, but it's still definitely there. idk man, its not like I've ever gone "aw fuck im a war im neva gonna kill this sonofabitch elementalist" in Guild Wars because every class has a reasonable chance versus everyone.

they don't really buff/nerf whatever the fuck they please, they buff/nerf out of percentile representation, most likely. They keep the most played strong, and the least played weak.

the things that annoy me about it are mainly how secondary it is, no integration of skill types (which makes Guild Wars easier to learn, really), the above problems, and how much of a complete joke it is in general. There's no real depth to it at all. Like, there's just strategies for your class, and maybe stuff to do versus certain other classes. There's nothing really advanced, or anything, to it. I guess that might be because WoW is a simple game, but you don't really hear anyone calling spikes, splitting, and such. It just seems very very simple at times, and maybe that's my real problem with it, since that will probably never change. I love calling/doing splits to force the other team to send back a warrior and a monk to stop our split from destroying their guild, I love calling a spike on a monk as a warrior, then their monk throws up guardian just in the nick of time to stop my adrenal unload, so I tab to another monk, I love weapon swapping/chiizu-dancing/quarter-knocking as a warrior, I love pre-kiting, kitting, battle-lioning, and such. They all add a lot of depth, and all those things become additional skills and facets of the gameplay. (i know you prolly don't know what half that shit is LoL)

I think WoW was doing good with PvE/World PvP only.

Should of stayed that way.

Well I think it goes to what was mentioned in another topic, that WoW is more about gratification to a lot of people, which is the same in pvp. I actually enjoy the pvp imbalance right now just because it's that much more satisfying when you beat somebody you're not supposed to, or you win a bg when the other team had better composition or something like that. I prefer having stories of ridiculous comebacks or fighting off gankers, over stories of winning a fair fight. I think I can safely say that for almost any multiplayer game.

Just the other day I was grinding mining in burning steppes when this S3 ret pally kept jumping me. Eventually I ran into a mage who was hunting him down for jumping his alt or something and I told him I'd let him know if it happened again. So when the pally jumped me again I just healed through it while the mage hauled ass across the zone and we took him on together. Even with the two of us it was a hard fight since he was S3. We got him down after a few close calls, and it was really satisfying. If it was an even fight, he would have just been an annoyance, but since it was such a longshot win with the two of us it made my mining trip more memorable.

ioh yea after playing some more today I remembered another reason why I hate the PvP in this:
Too much CC based. It's all about CC's. It's pretty lame, because it lessens the importance of positional plays, ruins splitting, and gives spell damage a huge boost.

It's alright I guess, but it seems pretty medieval. The worst thing Guild Wars has is a snare that slows you by 90% and it costs an assload to use it and no one uses it because its not that good. There are no roots, only snares, and they are strong as hell, but not strong enough to completely remove someone from play for awhile. Plus, spell damage as a result isn't as good. Physicals get to actually do their job pretty easily, everyone does, which leads to more dynamic matches of positional fineness.

I guess I just find the whole CC thing kinda lame. There's just so many of them, its kind of amazing really!

Any word on when S4 starts

Of course, it's fun playing in a CC based PvP as a class that really has no CC or anti-CC options (although this was fixed ever so slightly in 2.4)