what are you guys talking about bursting for 18k is perfectly balanced, do you know how bad paladins used to be??

Haha, I wasn't saying it was nerfed back to the point where people aren't sure if its viable. I just don't want to be put in the position of being discriminated against again. ^^

Every class is discriminated against in some way (whether its your lolret, your huntards, your fury warriors, etc), it's an MMO, people do that. 

zombie event ends in like, an hour.

it sucks. best world event ever!

Oh well, at least the Scourge Invasion is still going.

I dunno if it's ending same time in the EU but zombie transformation is nearly instant now so I guess we're nearly done. Hope they do more shit like this

he didn't even have slow so that would have hit for around 3999

Aw damn, I wasn't finished saving all the cities from the Scourge. Crap.
BTW, Paladin nerf? Eh. I'd like to see some help for us Priests. Has to be the shittiest, most pointless class in the game right now.

Yeah bob it's fuckin ridiculous, I can't stay arcane for more than about 30 mins. I used to play SL/SL warlock and 3.0.2 arcane mage make that seem really complicated and skill dependant

its funny how they dont even have to counterspell properly to kill you; the 4 sec silence from imp cs is enough time for them to kill you with arcane barrage and instants.

arcane take zero skill

ghostcrawler says he prolly gonna nerf that shit

I like that guy

TO THE GROUND BABY

i had never played against an arcane mage as a caster before since i don't think one had existed since 2005 before 3.0, improved counterspell is way too good

counterspell in itself is an amazing spell. its different to like kick and stuff imo (even though they are supposed to be similar) because its so much harder to bait a mage into doing it from a fakecast (good ones anyway; retarded ones just go LOL OPEN WITH COUNTERSPELL). it's the same with spell lock. i know it's an awful warlock when his felhunter AUTOCASTS spell lock/devour magic (hint: devour magic is better used to dispel yourself from stuff).

anyway yeah counterspell is needed. the reason i think its overpowered right now (well, only in conjuction with the following) is cause arcane mages can kill you in the 4 secs you're silenced (talking from a priest and paladin perspective). like i'll put pw:shield up, put a prayer of mending on myself and a renew in preparation. then dumb arcane barrage spamming mage kills me anyway cause it's so fucking strong, i'm dead in 4 seconds. i've died through all that AND pain suppression before too, just because i can't cast for that tiny amount of time. my gear is bad but even equal geared ones to me are insane.

tbh right now the game in general is too bursty. i don't mind dying on my priest, i mean he has awful gear (i wanted to play priest in wotlk so i just got him to 70 and played bgs a bit) with like 160ish resilience.

but man, dps is insane in this game now considering pre-patch where healers took ages to bring down. like i've been hit mid-fight by a decent geared warrior with a 5k execute cause of their talent. 7k starfires from boomkins (had that on my WELL geared paladin). a feral druid has crit me for 4.5k with ferocious bite. ret paladins can kill you in one HoJ, whilst never going oom and insta-healing themself. rogues have always been strong and now they're all speccing mutilate which hurts even more (though they have less mobility). in fact in general all dps classes are crazily good (except, imo, shadowpriests unless you really have good gear.)

it will be interesting to see how it is at 80 with higher HP.

WORLD OF WARGRAFT SUCKS!!!! FUCKALLLYALLL

WOW SUCKS DEEZ NUTZ ===> (_)_)lllllllllllllllD

XD

Hey I just got given WoW from a mate. Ive hated every MMO which people have suggested or praised. So I'm just wondering.. What exactly makes you like WoW and can you actually solo the whole time if you please? I hated FFXI cause you had to party all the time and grind like hell, but the graphics were pretty cool.

Hey I just got given WoW from a mate. Ive hated every MMO which people have suggested or praised. So I'm just wondering.. What exactly makes you like WoW and can you actually solo the whole time if you please? I hated FFXI cause you had to party all the time and grind like hell, but the graphics were pretty cool.

i like it cause its blizzard and you can solo all the way up til the end-game which is team based content.

Hello paladins,

Sorry we didn't get a chance to pre-announce these changes before the data were pushed to the beta. I won't try to sugarcoat it -- these are nerfs.

As I tried to explain before, we concluded a couple of weeks ago that Retribution was doing too much damage in PvP. We tried to nerf the burst damage through the previous changes to Divine Storm etc. Unfortunately, those changes didn't prove sufficient. Not only were paladins still destroying other classes in PvP, but we also found their PvE damage, even at level 80, was too high. Many classes were concluding they were too weak based on comparing their numbers to paladin numbers (and to be fair, hunters and in some cases mages and warriors).

Here are the new changes:

1) Judgements of the Wise: Mana gained reduced from 33% to 15% of base mana. We spent many hours arriving at this number. For example, we did a lot of Patchwerk fights, watching the mana bar to see when and if it ever went down. In BGs, we were seeing paladins able to go from target to target without pausing even when unleashing all of their attacks. While we don't want you to go OOM in a few seconds, we don't want you to ignore the mana bar either. Mana is not rage -- warriors can't typically start a battle with a full bar.

2) Judgement of Wisdom: mana gained reduced to 1% of maximum mana and proc frequency cut by 50%. This ability was flat out better than Vampiric Touch when the mana provided between the two really needs to be close in order for the decision between Shadow priest and Retribution paladin to be a real one.

3) Judgement and Seals: Damage reduced by 20%. This is the major damage adjustment -- a lot of damage was coming from these. We do realize this hurts Holy and Protection as well, and that is something for which we are prepared to offer compensation (particularly if it hurts Protection's threat generation).

4) Hammer of Wrath: Now can’t be used until the target is below 20% health. Our rule of thumb is that core "Execute-style" abilities work at 20% and talented abilities work at 35% health. We originally had Hammer at 35% based on some other limitations of the spell.

5) Art of War: Increased damage bonus to Judgements, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm. I'll report back on the exact numbers here when we've settled on them.

I also want to add that the token Blessing of Might change wasn't intended as a joke -- it is designed so that Battle Shouts won't cancel the longer and more expensive Blessing of Might in a group setting.

These seem like pretty severe nerfs, but that was the intention. It is difficult for some players to ever be truly objective with issues surrounding their class, but in this case we felt Ret was severely overpowered. This was not in the realm of small tweaks to fix (though we did try originally). We overhauled the paladin class for Lich King, so it is unfortunate but not too surprising that the numbers for the dps spec require a lot of iteration. The mistake is ours, not the fault of the player base or beta testers.

Nerfing a spec or class is never fun. It means that our initial estimates of numbers were off and we know that the community is going to react negatively (to put it mildly). But we have to try and keep the game in a relatively balanced state and that is going to mean making decisions that are unpopular sometimes. If you need to blame someone for the nerfs, blame me.

As always, if we over-compensated, we'll adjust the numbers again. But as I said, our initial round of nerfs wasn't sufficient. Lest you fear that Lich King is upon as and you won't see any additional changes, that is not our point of view. We changed a lot in the game and we need to be able to recitfy problems. I would expect early patches or even hotfixes to deal with class or balance problems, and hopefully these will slow down as we get closer to major content releases. But nothing is off the table after we ship, down to rearchitecting talent trees if we think that is called for. This isn't to suggest we aren't happy with the state of the game. Rather, my word that we will continue to iterate on problem areas as they come up.

I also want to stress that we do not make balance decisions based on the QQ of other classes. At most, if there is a pretty vocal outcry that will encourage us to rerun the numbers to see if something is amiss. As vocal, and sometimes passionate and even logical as forum posts can be, they represent a fraction of the entire fanbase and it would be foolish for us to clobber one group of players solely based on the whining from another group.

Go ahead and vent if you have to. We won't delete posts or ban posters in this thread unless they are overly offensive. We do ask that you not launch a thousand other threads so that other paladin issues can still be discussed. Likewise, we have no problem with other classes engaging in the discussion but outright gloating or trolling will be frowned upon.

And I do apologize for putting you through this.

it's fucking needed imo. all the paladins crying are idiots who prefer being gods to being balanced. this coming from a ret paladin.

The change to judgment kind of sucks as prot, but I have a feeling the threat loss will be negated by Shield of the Righteous.