Tv good animations (Read 1599 times)

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ahaha
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Aeon Flux rocks, I want to see that again.  It came on MTV2 for a short time and I watched it then, haven't seen it since.
my brother bought the entire series on a single vhs.  it is just SITTING IN MY CLOSET idk if it still works.  most were shorts but there were 2 or 3 full-length stories that were pretty cool too.
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words
that came out as "i don't know" so what in a technical stance is better animation than a high framerate
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you already know he has no idea what he's talking about. it really isn't too difficult to think of things that are important in animation besides framerate but lol

also yeah, aeon flux was really cool. I believe it was normal MTV programming at one point but I was too young to appreciate it.
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LIQUID TELEVISION seemed pretty cool in retrospect.  it had that one with teens with giant heads and aliens that i thought was pretty cool, and the maxx, which to this day is one of my favorite american cartoons!!
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it really isn't too difficult to think of things that are important in animation besides framerate but lol
well if you consider things like NOT CUTTING CORNERS a trait then yea but besides actual effort there isnt much!
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LIQUID TELEVISION seemed pretty cool in retrospect.  it had that one with teens with giant heads and aliens that i thought was pretty cool, and the maxx, which to this day is one of my favorite american cartoons!!
I never heard of that stuff! it does sound cool from the wikipedia entry, I should see if I can watch it online

nope only found aeon flux on hulu.

well if you consider things like NOT CUTTING CORNERS a trait then yea but besides actual effort there isnt much!
don't feel like spelling it out atm but that's kinda like judging an album by its production.
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don't feel like spelling it out atm but that's kinda like judging an album by its production.
well its more like saying "____ is good because they try," which applies to basically every medium. what i'm trying to get at is framerate is one of the only quantifiable aspects of a good animation.

also he was saying earlier how pixar etc aren't "good" even though they have high framerates, but i'm pretty sure wall-e and the like were astoundingly animated (despite the quality of the actual movie)
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no man, I can't tell if you're being really dumb or you're just not making any sense to me. pixar? that's CGI animation, that's a whole different subject

this is really BREAKING IT DOWN btw but I guess that's what you want?? judging if something is WELL-ANIMATED takes into consideration shit like fluidity, eg if the movement flows realistically. it also takes into consideration the complexity and detail of the animation (THIS IS A BIG ONE), like idk giving movement to the weight and folds of clothes on a person's body, or animating the contraction and respective release of every muscle as a baseball player swings a bat. that's just s ome basic technical shit you probably could have picked up on just from us talking about it in this thread, then there's also like animating perspective and first-person movement etc.

there's a lot more to animation than FRAME RATE, especially with the technology we have today! have you ever seen a flash animation man.
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heres another great animation I found guys, the frame rate is fuckin unbelievable! well it's a black dot moving horizontally through white space,

I really have no idea what you're talking about
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sorry guys, i am confusing LIQUID TELEVISION with the oddities.  they are like four years apart too so i guess my memory sucks.  liquid television had aeon flux and other shorts but oddities had the head and the maxx.  both were p cool when i was 12 or 13!
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the pixar stuff was gotten from this one:
Most people believe that the only thing that makes a superior animation superior is highframerate. (It's why they all like Pixar and Dreamworks so much.)

If that's all you are going to say, then I have no choice but to lump you in with that group.

but yea i grouped in fluidity etc with not cutting corners because thats basically the tweeners' jobs

what i was trying to say was if you have two animations with about the same artistic quality and effort then the only thing that makes one better than the other is the framerate.
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Well the problem with that analyses is that it doesn't take into account what it is about a higher framerate that makes it look better. It's like comparing paintings by counting the number of brushstrokes, or comparing software by counting the lines of code written.

It's what you express with each of those details that makes them important. It's the final result, what's communicated to the viewer that matters. And in that respect, the amount of brushstrokes you need, or the amount of frames in moving from one pose to the next is exactly whatever number you need to communicate the thing you are trying to communicate. Any less would do the idea injustice, and any more would be an effort wasted (effort you could be using to utilize and express even grander ideas and concepts).
 
More frames means you have that much more opportunity to express and detail exactly how something moves with much more precision and fluidity, but it's just as easy to blithely put every extra frame in a "middle" spot and effectively waste effort as your "higher framerate" expresses nothing of value to the animation.
Working from your example, lets say we have two animations that are completely identical. We have a team of complete unknowns put in charge of putting an extra frame in-between every frame of the original (we can assume they can draw well enough for the in-between frames to match the original frames they are in-betweening, but nothing else). In that scenario, it is impossible to tell if the animation with a "doubled framerate" is going to be better or worse than the one with the lower framerate. It could look fluid and vivid, but it could just as easily look mushy and ambiguous. The fact that the extra frames are there isn't what makes the animation "better". Each extra frame that's put in there adds quality to the work based solely on the thought and quality put into the frame itself.
If anything, the framerate can only define the amount of potential an animation has to be better. An animation established with a higher framerate has that much more opportunity to be better, but there is no definite sign that it will be better. (in fact, there are some *rare* situations that actually look better with the framerate cut down. Richard Williams covers an example of this in The Animators Survival Kit, using an sequence from The Thief and the Cobbler no less.)

Really my beef is just with Dreamworks (and for design/taste/management reasons more than anything else), but the whole computer thing is offputting because it does so much of the work in those details while leaving the true artists with only a limited array of control over how the thing is actually made (In the end, it's churned out frame by frame from a giant array of processors in some soulless rendering farm). They've made everything become so big and detailed that instead of simplifying the animator's workload, you have to split it up between several departments just to get an image from it (which usually results in each artist working on his tiny specific element in a vaccum with no knowledge of how the thing will look when put into a complete image. I shouldn't lump Pixar in because they are much better about this than Dreamworks when you compare their designs and workflows).
Although I love the stuff as well because I'm persuing computer science, so I can put control in my own hands at whatever level I like as long as I'm willing to work for it. (although I find drawing images in sequence a much simpler task to that end) It's just that people are paying way too much money for way too many frames and way too much detail that isn't actually being utilized because it's so easy to make a computer do all the hard monotonous parts. You don't even need a reason to draw every single strand of hair or unsightly pore, you can "set it" and let the computer labor for hours on end for an animation that almost always isn't even worth the effort. (case in point)

Is it stupid for me to pity machines? Because I do.
Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 06:17:17 pm by EvilDemonCreature
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ok guys since we actually have a half decent thread in here for once I'm going to ask you to take this discussion somewhere else, like a new thread or WIKI ANSWERS or something. I can split the posts if you really want them, just don't clutter sap's thread with this junk anymore.
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Try checking out Kaiba and Kemonozume. They're both made by the guy behind Mind Game.

Kaiba's animation resembles something of a picture book. The series focuses a lot more in visuals than in story and dialog. Kemonozume's animation is a little strange. The characters sometimes resemble sketches and at times the animation can look a little choppy. It's still a pretty great series though.

You should also check Corto Maltese. It's an Italian comic book series that's been adapted into a movie and a TV series (both in French). I haven't seen the series myself, though I'm thinking about buying the DVDs. Here's the movie's trailer: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bro-fCnQQ-4
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hey this isn't a good animations but did any other movie do the whole 2d characters, 3d world, that Titan AE did?

fun fact joss whedon made that piece of shit!

The only movie I've seen where it was apparent was Aachi and Ssipak. Unlike Titan AE, it was actually a fun movie and worked much more effectivley to blend the use of 3d graphics into the world to keep things consistent and immersive. (It's korean, so it'll remind you of anime a lot *but the good ones where everybody is funky looking and the movement is totally slick*, the 3d graphics are used in a couple of scenes to make those types of painted backgrounds move. I think they did the same thing in Anastasia, but unlike that movie this one is actually fun.)
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Yeah, I'm on vacation in some faraway place right now so I can't access internet very frequently. I want to add that animation isn't about making something realistic, as Richard Williams says. It's about making things believable, because you can make something completely unrealistic be very believable, and that's what animation should be about: twisting the truth, doing things you can't do in real life, but still making you think it's the truth. That's why we we even bother with animation.

Anyways, I've added a few suggestions up there, will add more. Some of them are my own, such as Biteycastle and Prelude to Eden. I also put up Cowboy Bebop there because I really enjoy its style and I will eventually add Mindgame and some of Ohlichris's suggestions. When I get back from break I'm going to find some screenshots and organize the list better. I just want to add some color so that it's more interesting and easier to see. If anyone has any screenshots or summaries to add, please contribute.

Also, over the years I've seen this extremely violent, sexual and pretty shocking Flash animation series called Akumi. Has anyone else seen this, and does anyone have any thoughts on it? It's a pretty controversial series but has some interesting things going on.
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The worst animation I can think of is The Princess and the Goblin...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sfKJ7-hfds  :rolleyes: :blarg: