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Is a University Strike Fair? (Read 2237 times)

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the_bub_from_the_pit

#81 January 18, 2009, 04:37:29 am

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Quote from: Paradigm on January 18, 2009, 01:57:01 am

UWO dropout gone self-made dot-com.

School is overrated.

I have York friends incredibly butthurt over it.

Story of the day is go to a better school. The standards of York are pretty low.

you're a moron

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Dulcinea

#82 January 18, 2009, 05:03:07 pm

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Their standards really aren't that low. Dunno why everyone makes fun of them, like-

Why do York students put their diplomas on their dashboards?

So they can park in handicapped spaces.

Anyway, I hear they'll be back in school next week, is that true?

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Blitzen

#83 January 18, 2009, 06:54:33 pm

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In Canada, strikes usually go way out of control, especially lately. In Ottawa, public transportation has been on strike since the beginning of December. That means no busses, no train (even though we only have one poorly-laid train service).

Because Ottawa is such a sparse city, the lack of public transportation has had huge implications for commuters. People who would normally take the bus to cover 30 miles now have to find rides, find places to stay closer to their goals, or simply give up obligations. I've heard more than a couple of stories about people having to give up jobs or losing them because they aren't able to simply get to them anymore. In the morning and afternoon, increased car traffic has made traveling through the city a nightmare: commuters who would usually spend 30 minutes in their cars are now there for two hours. Its thrown everything in the whole city out of whack.

To top it all off, the public transit system in Ottawa sucks to begin with. Busses do not adequately service suburban areas, are crazy expensive ($3.00 fare), and the reason why the bus drivers had decided to strike was so that the senior employees could pick their own hours. Considering that scheduling is one of the only powers an employer might have over a tight union, its something the city has not been willing to give into, and I think more than %70 of the populace sides with the city.

In my opinion, when workers are relied upon to the extent that the entire local infrastructure hinges on them, they shouldn't be allowed to strike. Its just too disruptive to the community. I might extend that argument to the university, considering that thousands of people are out a lot of money for having to attend and stick around, unsure when the dispute would be settled.

At Carleton University, where I attend, there was a vote recently by the TAs association asking if they should go on strike as well. The administration at Carleton is sneaky, so I have no doubt that they were acting underhandedly regarding the TAs, but still if the TAs were to go on strike, that would seriously cause problems for tens of thousands of people who attend and are affected by the university.

I don't know what else to say except that employers need to find faster methods of resolution, and unions should consider their ethical obligations to the community before they stop working.

outerspacepotatoman

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Ryan

#84 January 18, 2009, 06:58:01 pm

thx ds k?
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Quote

n my opinion, when workers are relied upon to the extent that the entire local infrastructure hinges on them, they shouldn't be allowed to strike. Its just too disruptive to the community.

strikes are only good when they're ineffective. effective strikes are bad.

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Blitzen

#85 January 19, 2009, 01:39:07 am

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If the busses can't run, that affects the livelihood of hundreds of thousands of people. I do think that essential services like public transit shouldn't be allowed to strike, especially in a city like mine where its vital to the infrastructure. The impact it has had on the city has been very disruptive economically and personally for a lot of people, and the trouble they're causing is not nearly worth the matter over which the drivers are striking.
I think unions are stupid anyways, so I'm not all that sympathetic with anyone involved (management or employees) when a strike occurs anywhere.

outerspacepotatoman

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the_bub_from_the_pit

#86 January 19, 2009, 02:15:35 am

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the main problem with why everything fucks up when they strike is because services like the TTC in toronto have a monopoly over the public transport system and so when they strike everyone has to listen to their demands and hike up fairs yet again.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#87 January 19, 2009, 02:40:23 am

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once again: a strike has to be effective to matter. MASSIVE INCONVENIENCE MY PUBLIC TRANSIT IS GONE well carpool then jesus christ. when the screenwriters went on strike a lot of non writers or actors lost their jobs. didn't heroes hire HEMPKNIGHT to rig their lights once? this is probably unrelated I just remembered how funny it was when he did this and then gushed about celeb gossip when Kristen Bell didn't say hi to him.

whatever issues you may have with this strike you have to realize it NEEDS to shut down an "essential part of infrastructure". if it does not it's just a bunch of people with already worthless jobs who quit all at once and no one missed them.

how do you think these people should negotiate for wages? what exactly stops the transit system from saying "fuck along then your pay is 25 dollars a week"? if employees can't strike, what exactly can they do? are any of you going to THINK OF THIS or just complain you had to ride a bike for a month?

brian chemicals

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the_bub_from_the_pit

#88 January 19, 2009, 03:02:19 am

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my problem with the ttc in general stems far more than the fact that they're making a huge inconvenience but more because of the fact that they're getting paid $29.33/hr for driving in a circle 8 hours a day (they went on strike earlier this year too). this is a job that doesn't require an education and makes far more than a lot of those that do :/

Also:

Quote

"But along with the supervisors, managers and professional staff on the $100,000 list were 41 operators (subway train and bus drivers), 12 coach technicians, three transit special constables and two station collectors."

a station collector sits in a booth and makes sure everyone getting into the station puts their fare in. also, when they went on strike they gave an hour's notice (mostly online) so a ton of people got screwed. I just don't see how all of this is very fair, i guess.

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Dulcinea

#89 January 19, 2009, 03:14:35 am

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Quote from: FlowerPower on January 19, 2009, 03:02:19 am

my problem with the ttc in general stems far more than the fact that they're making a huge inconvenience but more because of the fact that they're getting paid $29.33/hr for driving in a circle 8 hours a day (they went on strike earlier this year too). this is a job that doesn't require an education and makes far more than a lot of those that do :/

Also:

a station collector sits in a booth and makes sure everyone getting into the station puts their fare in. also, when they went on strike they gave an hour's notice (mostly online) so a ton of people got screwed. I just don't see how all of this is very fair, i guess.

Ok seriously...TTC keeps raising fairs, going on strike, asking for more but the majority treat you like they're doing you a favour when they pick you up, with attitude.

Just for an idea of the attitude and arrogance you get from employees- there used to be this guy at Sheppard Station who was a nazi Carder. He carded you for student fare when you were in uniform. Anyway, I was in a rush cause I was late for a lesson, and I had my guitar. I put my fare in the box and instead of TELLING ME HE WAS CARDING ME FOR MY STUDENT FARE (even though I was in a school uniform), he locked the turnstyle and I ended up bruising my rib and getting a small crack in my guitar (this was when he was new so I didn't know he'd do that). My dad called to complain, and the guy gets a freaking letter of commendation, which the next time he sees me, he presses up against the glass of his stupid little box and says "Tell all your little friends who are complaining about me that the company likes what I'm doing."

And the service is terrible. I take a bus that goes on a particularly hilly route, and none of the buses have snow tires so it either short turns at freaking Leslie and I have to walk all the way to VP in a -28 degree snowstorm at 11 at night (yes this happened), or it stalls trying to climb up a hill. We live in freaking Canada. Get snow tires with the millions extra we're paying in hiked fares. And the subway stops almost every morning sometimes for a delay, usually for no reason at all. Not to mention that the subway shuts down before last call.

Even if they strike I don't want to pay higher fares and taxes so that guys like this can get off on hurting kids and abusing their power.

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the_bub_from_the_pit

#90 January 19, 2009, 03:18:36 am

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Quote from: Dulcinea on January 19, 2009, 03:14:35 am

And the service is terrible. I take a bus that goes on a particularly hilly route, and none of the buses have snow tires so it either short turns at freaking Leslie and I have to walk all the way to VP in a -28 degree snowstorm at 11 at night (yes this happened), or it stalls trying to climb up a hill. We live in freaking Canada. Get snow tires with the millions extra we're paying in hiked fares. And the subway stops almost every morning sometimes for a delay, usually for no reason at all. Not to mention that the subway shuts down before last call.

whoa, you live really really close to me.

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Brown

#91 January 19, 2009, 04:52:08 am

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its really not fair because your education is at halt no matter what compensation occurs after (if any). I have a few friends from york and all we do now is smoke up and chill pretty much everyday. But hey there's still work :P

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Dulcinea

#92 January 19, 2009, 07:21:25 am

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Quote from: FlowerPower on January 19, 2009, 03:18:36 am

whoa, you live really really close to me.

Myabe. Both VP and Leslie are huge streets though.

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rapty

#93 January 19, 2009, 09:48:29 am

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Quote from: FlowerPower on January 19, 2009, 03:02:19 am

my problem with the ttc in general stems far more than the fact that they're making a huge inconvenience but more because of the fact that they're getting paid $29.33/hr for driving in a circle 8 hours a day (they went on strike earlier this year too). this is a job that doesn't require an education and makes far more than a lot of those that do :/

Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe those people in jobs that get paid less should.. you know.. do something to get their wages raised. Something like.. joining a union and fighting for them. If you're not willing to do something to raise your own wages, then don't bitch about it when others choose to do something about it. You can't expect your boss to, out of the "goodness of his heart", pay you anything more than the least that he can get away with -- hence where unions and strike action come in.

Quote

Ok seriously...TTC keeps raising fairs, going on strike, asking for more but the majority treat you like they're doing you a favour when they pick you up, with attitude.

The TTC executives who raise fares and the front-line workers are two totally different groups.

Quote

To top it all off, the public transit system in Ottawa sucks to begin with. Busses do not adequately service suburban areas, are crazy expensive ($3.00 fare), and the reason why the bus drivers had decided to strike was so that the senior employees could pick their own hours. Considering that scheduling is one of the only powers an employer might have over a tight union, its something the city has not been willing to give into, and I think more than %70 of the populace sides with the city.

"The city won't give in to a reasonable demand. IT'S ALL THE UNION'S FAULT."

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Dulcinea

#94 January 19, 2009, 02:02:55 pm

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Quote from: rapty on January 19, 2009, 09:48:29 am

Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe those people in jobs that get paid less should.. you know.. do something to get their wages raised. Something like.. joining a union and fighting for them. If you're not willing to do something to raise your own wages, then don't bitch about it when others choose to do something about it. You can't expect your boss to, out of the "goodness of his heart", pay you anything more than the least that he can get away with -- hence where unions and strike action come in.

The TTC executives who raise fares and the front-line workers are two totally different groups.

"The city won't give in to a reasonable demand. IT'S ALL THE UNION'S FAULT."

The frequency with which the TTC goes on strike is ridiculous though. Not long ago they had a wildcat strike, too, which was illegal. They just stopped service and some peopel didn't even know- they ende dup stranded, or waiting hours for buses that weren't coming.

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Alec

#95 January 19, 2009, 02:27:12 pm

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Quote from: rapty on January 19, 2009, 09:48:29 am

Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe those people in jobs that get paid less should.. you know.. do something to get their wages raised. Something like.. joining a union and fighting for them. If you're not willing to do something to raise your own wages, then don't bitch about it when others choose to do something about it. You can't expect your boss to, out of the "goodness of his heart", pay you anything more than the least that he can get away with -- hence where unions and strike action come in.

yeah because every job available has a union associated with it. ofuck me i'm not really making enough, better go find a union job. not to mention that frivolous striking is pretty much the new frivolous lawsuits and a lot of unions are doing it JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. It's not like these people are ACTUALLY OVERPAID and that has nothing to do with "well why don't you get paid more?"

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rapty

#96 January 19, 2009, 08:33:32 pm

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Quote from: Alec on January 19, 2009, 02:27:12 pm

yeah because every job available has a union associated with it. ofuck me i'm not really making enough, better go find a union job. not to mention that frivolous striking is pretty much the new frivolous lawsuits and a lot of unions are doing it JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN. It's not like these people are ACTUALLY OVERPAID and that has nothing to do with "well why don't you get paid more?"

Yup. That's EXACTLY it. If you're not making enough, talk to your co-workers and at least TRY. Try carefully, of course, as not all workplaces will take too kindly to union organizing. Talk to any of the national unions, or a local union in your area. Look into it. Most unions will at least try to help with inquiries about possible new members. Worst case? They can't help you right now. At the very least you tried.

http://www.iww.org/en/organize
http://www.ufcw.org/organizing/

There is no such thing as a "frivolous" strike. For the working class, there is no such thing as "overpaid". Any dollar a worker can squeeze out of their bosses is a hard earned and fully deserved dollar. Stop being jealous of what others have fought for and work together with your co-workers to improve your own conditions.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#97 January 19, 2009, 08:44:29 pm

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did you know starbucks will fire you if they catch wind you are unionizing, it was a big deal about a month back, the IWW did a pretty big protest.

brian chemicals

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#98 January 19, 2009, 08:50:38 pm

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gw has such a hilarious conservatism streak. if it's something that doesn't affect them like gay marriage or something they can passively accept like legalizing weed they are all for it but the second it is something that gives you a minor inconvenience (help a guy was mean to me and I passively aggressively tried to get mad at him FUCK EVERYWORKER) you all become raging republicans.

FUCKING UNIONS...

MY! RIGHTS! TO! A! BUS!

see also: Israel topic where everyone who has been to Israel has argued ITS OKAY THEY KILLED CHILDREN or whenever we have a topic about abortion and a bunch of virgins rant about their right to deny women the right to choose.

brian chemicals

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Alec

#99 January 19, 2009, 09:06:54 pm

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i don't ride a bus, and i still uphold the fact that rapty is wrong about "no such thing as overpaid." fuck there isn't. $30 an hour for working class. That's almost $60,000 a year for a job which is really supposed to be a ~22-30~ yr old person's job (at least in the states, public transit drivers are either really old assholes or mid-twenties college students or like band members who are supplementing).
60,000 a year is ridiculous. especially considering the more that wages increase for this shit, the more prices increase. that's how these fucking strikes are frivolous, fuckers squeezing out a couple extra dollars an hour will raise fares considerably (shit adds up), in turn other prices raise to have to keep up, it's bullshit.

EDIT: if you can expect me to go out and find a job that's unionized then you should be able to expect these fuckers to find a better job (bus driving... really?) instead of bitching about it.

it's not really a matter of is this strike effective, it's a matter of is this strike important, and in a lot of cases, they're not. These fuckers are NOT BEING TREATED UNFAIRLY, they need to get off their high horses and realize that.

I agreed with the writer's strike last year though because they were actually being treated unfairly, so yeah it's more a matter of picking your battles and not being assholes.

Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 09:11:53 pm by Alec

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#100 January 19, 2009, 09:09:37 pm

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sooooo

because whatever industry that gets paid under 60,000 doesn't have a union and thus doesn't strike

fuck anyone that does and got money for it because a bunch of people believe a bus ride is a right.

ps: what the fuck are you people paying in fares that you're complaining so much.

brian chemicals

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