because solitary confinement destroys your brain. no it's fucked up nobody has the right to do that to someone.

That is where I disagree; I believe if you take someones life knowingly and premeditated you give society the right to pass  "justice" upon you for your actions. You cannot simply say you don't have the right. because where does that end?

If you don't have that right, why do we have the right to pass judgment, period?  I can say "nobody has the right to lock someone up." Sudden separation from loved ones and you're environment (home) can also cause mental illnesses like chronic depression (which is the most common illness solitary confinement causes.) Confinement itself causes a lot of mental illnesses, and physical abuse too if you want to take into account that you are forcing someone to socialize with other criminals that are far more dangerous. Who gave us that right to lock people up? explain that to me. The problem with the "who gave that right?" argument is that their is no line to where that starts and ends.

you've taken away someone's rights so we will take away yours.

I mean can you seriously envision a no government society where criminals cannot atone for what they have done?  Someone HAS to do it.

I agree, so define that atonement, can you even atone for taking something you cannot bring back?  That is where a lot of us differ.

you've taken away someone's rights so we will take away yours.

Yeah; as if life was that black and white right? nice argument.

jesus christ what the fuck do you care what a murderer is doing in jail cell as long as he's locked up for life? i couldn't care less if a child murder is sitting in his cell doing coke and fucking hookers every day as long as he's never able to commit the crime again.

Yeahhhh....hey did you know if you kill someone you get to go to jail where they give you hookers and drugs and you get free food and shelter? Awsome deterrent

I do see your point, however I believe it is our responsibility to deter and make people atone for their sins. It is sad that people base their actions on what will happen to them if they do it instead of their principles but that is the world we live in. We need deterrence.

People who are eligable to committing crimes worthy of a life-time sentence or death penalty in the first place don't necessarily grasp the idea of punishment to begin with, so I doubt that matters much.

Besides, USA which has much stricter sentences and far worse prisons have far higher crime rates than most European countries that have milder sentences and better prisons.

it is no longer about punishment when you kill someone, punishment on that level is to deter OTHER people.

one time i lost a dollar so i killed an entire bank.

Myra Hindley the infamous child murderer who died behind bars despite protests for her release. She suffered from dependant personality(perhaps caused by witnessing the death of her best friend at a young age?), was taken in and basically brainwashed by the dominating/charasmatic Ian Brady and basically acted out what he wanted, including horrific crimes. In prison after time and the brianwashing wore off she found religion, got educated showed absolute remorse for what she had commited. She was totally reformed and as an old woman posed no threat anymore. She wasn't allowed to go free.
She was used as an example by the government to show they were tough on crime by keeping her locked up. Why? Because the public hate her and see her as a face of evil rather than someone who was manipulated, and the government couldn't allow someone so hated to be allowed to go. An old dying woman kept locked up. She wasn't innocent, nobody will really claim she was, but she was a whole different person and one that deserved another chance.

Any deterrent has neglegable/no effect on violent crime, because of the mindset of people when commiting such crimes. But fuck it, let's isolate them all and not try to understand, and therefore be able to predict the causes for such problems.

free pimp c, free big lurch.

The death sentence is a barbaric answer. Life in prison is the answer. Death is too easy an ending. Let them suffer for their crimes.

I'm assuming life in prison in China is different than prison in USA or other countries where you're allowed stuff like basketball games and libraries and chance to get a college education?

Myra Hindley the infamous child murderer who died behind bars despite protests for her release. She suffered from dependant personality(perhaps caused by witnessing the death of her best friend at a young age?), was taken in and basically brainwashed by the dominating/charasmatic Ian Brady and basically acted out what he wanted, including horrific crimes. In prison after time and the brianwashing wore off she found religion, got educated showed absolute remorse for what she had commited. She was totally reformed and as an old woman posed no threat anymore. She wasn't allowed to go free.
She was used as an example by the government to show they were tough on crime by keeping her locked up. Why? Because the public hate her and see her as a face of evil rather than someone who was manipulated, and the government couldn't allow someone so hated to be allowed to go. An old dying woman kept locked up. She wasn't innocent, nobody will really claim she was, but she was a whole different person and one that deserved another chance.

Choosing the exception to apply to the majority doesn't work, however just because I believe in what I said doesn't mean you do not handle these situations on a case by case basis like everything else, why would you assume its just a broad stroke across all criminals? That is illogical.

1. She had a mental illness or a poor mental state(?)
2. She was abused mentally by someone (brainwashed)

These two facts alone make ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from two men who said
"hey, lets use this poison to rack up our profits! it might kill the babies? who cares~ its worth the risk."

There is a difference between a serial killer who is mentally disturbed..and these two men who killed people for MONEY. they were not mentally ill or miss guided or manipulated/brainwashed ...they made a choice.

I never thought I would have to explain the difference, but then again it's my fault for not implying that case by case review still applies...(Jesus.)

Any deterrent has neglegable/no effect on violent crime, because of the mindset of people when commiting such crimes. But fuck it, let's isolate them all and not try to understand, and therefore be able to predict the causes for such problems.

Really, did I ever say to cancel all research into why crimes of this level are commited? find that quote for me.
This is just a bad debate tactic... taking something I said and pushing it to the extreme.

If you think that people don't commit crimes out of the goodness of their hearts instead of a solid combination of morals and "well, I'm ganna go to jail or have to pay a fine I can't afford or have this go on my permanent record and never be able to get a decent job."