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Kaworu

#121 January 30, 2009, 08:18:50 pm

kaworu*Sigh*Isnt he the cutest person ever
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marcus and coxwain i think are in the navy.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#122 January 30, 2009, 08:31:10 pm

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Quote from: maladroithim on January 29, 2009, 06:29:57 pm

What is wrong with wanting getting a game design degree REALLY? Like it is not more useless than a music degree or a Political Science degree really. There are just as many opportunities to be a rock star or a governor. And, it is still college. I guess there are better career paths but going to college is still going to college.

no one said anything about music or poli sci but about everyone said GET COMPUTER SCIENCE. don't move those goalposts so far!

brian chemicals

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Farren

#123 January 30, 2009, 08:53:07 pm

I fear and I tremble
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Quote from: The Octave Doctor on January 30, 2009, 08:18:50 pm

marcus and coxwain i think are in the navy.

I went to school with him but I'm not sure he'd be interested in what I'm apart of.

You can train to be a mechanical engineer but thats more like engine and mechanical work. You can learn alot of useful shit and eventually become an electrician making 60-80k a year on mid range paying ships. The advantage over the navy imo is after a year of going to school you're free to go on your own, get your own jobs and go where you want to go. You don't have to stay with anyone or do anything you choose not to do.

You can also take your skills and find your own work: for instance I got a buddy with an uncle that invests in a shipping company I'm trying to get with.

If this works out like I'm hoping since they're going to need a crew and they're looking for basically anyone with a good attitude, with all of the identification and endorsements I have I can go and work for them and I'll be like fucking gold to them. It won't take me long at all to climb up the ladder and with a small company like that they'll be itching to make me a mate or a captain in a few years. I'm probably going to try and leave union work for awhile if this works out because my local hall is shit and I don't have the money right now to drive to Louisiana/Jacksonville and rent a hotel until something comes up.

Anyways the point I was trying to make is its good money and easy work if you're interested. But you've got to be disciplined and willing to go out and find work/compete for jobs. Its kind of hard in this area right now because the economy is in the tank but I'm sure it will pick up in the next year or two at the latest and by then you'll be ready to go out on your own.

I can talk to you about it if you're actually interested but its something to think about rather than signing your future away for someone else to ultimately determine what you'll be doing if they feel like sticking you somewhere else because the specialized area you want is full up.

DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS

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WunderBread

#124 January 30, 2009, 09:41:57 pm

Please don't fondle the mannequins, ma'am.
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I'm a Computer Science major (switched from Electrical Engineering this semester), and I've got to take two classes of actual math, two of computer-science oriented math, and then whatever two math course I want to take (this could be, like, LOGIC seminars or something equally useless). All in all, not too much, but still quite a lot. There's also a lot of things you can do with a computer science degree that have nothing to do with computer science (which I think is pretty cool). A large percentage of the CS/CIS/CSE/CSCI/whatever-they-feel-like-calling-it majors in our school go on to do financial consulting/law school/med school/etc. You can get jobs at companies that require CS majors in a broader sense (say, Disney or Google). Also, I suggest you get your masters. More and more people are getting just one degree, so it's becoming almost necessary to stay ahead of the game.

People say that you'd get stuck with the more mundane jobs in the game industry: well, yes. You can't expect to jump in at the top. You've got to work your way up, and prove yourself to be a valuable asset to your company. Make it known that you've got good ideas. Alternatively, you can always go the entrepreneurship route (that is how all game companies started, after all), but I'd only do that with some years of experience under your belt. Something to that extent. But, yeah, if you're very interested in games, I'd suggest computer science, mostly because of its versatility. Math sucks, but it is an integral part of programming.

Majoring in only what you're good at can be a poor choice. If I were to major in what I'm good at, I'd be a broke English major with little to no future. It's much better if you major in something that will keep you interested and also proves to give a nice salary yield. We all talk about "doing whatever you like as long as it makes you happy" but the truth is that doing whatever makes you happy might not pay the bills. You've got to do something difficult things to get a good payoff. That's how school works: hard work in hard subjects yields good things.

(Also, I'm not sure if I read a previous post wrong, but $30k a year seems a bit like underestimating, doesn't it? I am pretty sure the average salary for computer science degrees is $50k-$60k. $60k actually kind of sucks, but it's an optimistic starting salary, and at least you wouldn't have to pay ridiculous amounts in student loans like many doctors do. Unless you paid your entire tuition in loans, somehow.)

Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 09:48:29 pm by WunderBread

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maladroithim

#125 January 30, 2009, 09:50:16 pm

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Quote from: WunderBread on January 30, 2009, 09:41:57 pm

(Also, I'm not sure if I read a previous post wrong, but $30k a year seems a bit like underestimating, doesn't it? I am pretty sure the average salary for computer science degrees is $50k-$60k. $60k actually kind of sucks, but it's an optimistic starting salary, and at least you wouldn't have to pay ridiculous amounts in student loans like many doctors do. Unless you paid your entire tuition in loans, somehow.)

I don't think it is underestimating at all. The median individual income in America is $25,000.

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WunderBread

#126 January 30, 2009, 09:57:24 pm

Please don't fondle the mannequins, ma'am.
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Quote from: maladroithim on January 30, 2009, 09:50:16 pm

I don't think it is underestimating at all. The median individual income in America is $25,000.

Is this all jobs or just computer science? I am pretty sure $25k is shooting pretty low.

http://www.naceweb.org/press/display.asp?year=2007&prid=264

Quote from: National Association of Colleges and Employers (2007)

Computer science grads’ average salary offer is up by 4.5 percent to $53,051.

http://www.jobweb.com/jobmarketnews.aspx?id=1825

Quote

Curriculum Average Salary Offer
Computer Science $59,873

On a side note, I briefly had dreams of being an anesthesiologist. This is why. Then I realized that I had no desire to become a doctor, much to my parents' dismay.

Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 10:09:13 pm by WunderBread

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Standard Toaster

#127 January 30, 2009, 10:19:02 pm

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Wunderbread is that average calculated using a mean or a median? because if its using a mean that means there could be one guy makes like $5 million and skewing the data a ton.

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WunderBread

#128 January 30, 2009, 10:24:02 pm

Please don't fondle the mannequins, ma'am.
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Quote from: Standard Toaster on January 30, 2009, 10:19:02 pm

Wunderbread is that average calculated using a mean or a median? because if its using a mean that means there could be one guy makes like $5 million and skewing the data a ton.

I sincerely doubt that a starting salary with a bachelor's degree will warrant $5 million.

If you're looking for a median, check out the graphs here:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor_of_Science_(BS%2FBSc%2FSB),_Computer_Science_(CS)/Salary/by_Years_Experience

Quote

Median Salary by Years Experience - Degree: Bachelor of Science (BS/BSc/SB), Computer Science (CS) (United States)
Less than 1 year = $50,891

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Ash

#129 January 30, 2009, 11:25:37 pm

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I recall reading an article recently showing how the IT industry is suffering because students are coming out of college expecting something like DOUBLE what companies are willing to pay entry-level programmers. It's true that when I was in programming the instructors would go on about how people would just THROW money at you and there were jobs everywhere.

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Barack Obama

#130 January 30, 2009, 11:46:29 pm

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Best advice in the world: Stay the hell away from the military!

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Vellfire

#131 January 31, 2009, 12:34:53 am

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Quote from: Ash on January 30, 2009, 11:25:37 pm

I recall reading an article recently showing how the IT industry is suffering because students are coming out of college expecting something like DOUBLE what companies are willing to pay entry-level programmers. It's true that when I was in programming the instructors would go on about how people would just THROW money at you and there were jobs everywhere.

Good, more jobs for the rest of us.

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Bled

#132 January 31, 2009, 12:44:49 am

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Quote from: Ash on January 30, 2009, 11:25:37 pm

I recall reading an article recently showing how the IT industry is suffering because students are coming out of college expecting something like DOUBLE what companies are willing to pay entry-level programmers. It's true that when I was in programming the instructors would go on about how people would just THROW money at you and there were jobs everywhere.

Yeah, this was the case when I was a CS major. All too many of the people I went to school with thought that they could graduate with basically what amounts to a fundamental knowledge of Javascript and a little C++ and become ballers before the week was out. The most successful guy I knew ended up with an unpaid internship in the IT department at a big factory around here. The rest are either going back for their Master's or trying to make video games while playing DnD in their parents' basement.

The CS department at my school sucked a lot, though. In actuality everything you learned was a very condensed version of several different programming languages and methods. If any of the people I knew had actually clutched a real tech job around here they probably would have been clueless within six weeks.

I also read somewhere that in the United States there is expected to be a surge of new workers coming into the tech industry, as kids who traditionally would have majored in business management are scared of the economy and want to specialize in something that they think is more stable and potentially just as lucrative. It's sort of ironic because right now the tech sector is swinging the axe more liberally than other industries.

So yeah, there are a lot of CS misconceptions.

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
Hunter S. Thompson

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JohnnyCasil

#133 January 31, 2009, 01:15:32 am

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Uh, I don't know where you guys are hearing all these reports of this surge of entry level professionals. I constantly hear reports at my work about the complete lack of qualified college graduates. Sure, maybe there will be this surge of graduates, however, that vast majority of them will not be suitable to placed at any major company. Atleast at my work, they are really getting concerned that they will not be able to fill the amount of entry level engineering positions in the upcoming year.

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Vellfire

#134 January 31, 2009, 01:26:54 am

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Yeah, see that's the thing I like about my school is because they'll teach classes in graphics or AI or other things just to give you an introduction to them, but all of the other classes are for the most part based around C++, and how to use it efficiently. They don't try to give you a little bit of everything and you come out learning nothing. I don't know a whole lot about the upper level courses, but I do know that pretty much everyone who goes through our CS department and doesn't give up early because they aren't learning to type or making WoW mods goes on to be very successful. Although, it's kind of hard not to get hired when Lexmark is fucking right next door and they like our CS students better than the nearby state university's students, so they come looking to us first. If I don't get into any other summer internships next summer I'll probably end up doing one there.

I don't really understand why people think that the computer industry (and the gaming industry as we've covered already) is a magical place where you just waltz right in and make huge bucks and retire when you're 28. It's a job and a business just like any other, you've gotta start out at the bottom and work your way up. I think lot of them believe that just because their friends and parents don't have the computer knowledge they do, then no one else does either. The tech industry is full of people with more knowledge and experience than you, so you have to just work under them until you get that good too. I don't get why people have such a problem with this, if anything you'll be more proud of yourself when you do get that high paying magical job.

JohnnyCasil do you know more about why they weren't qualified? I've read a few things about how some schools teach purely Java CS programs and then students can't find jobs because they didn't learn some key things as well as it just being too easy. Is this what is happening? I could see how that could be a big issue, these articles talk about how a lot of schools make the CS major easier to get more people through it when really a lot of the people giving up on it really didn't need to be in it. If you know any specifics on the problems with these people applying for jobs I'd like to know, especially if any of them are things I should look into before graduating (although I also plan on getting my masters so it could be something I'll have covered later).

edit: dang this was a longer post than i thought it was, oh well anyway this is one of the articles that talks about the java/easy cs program thing, i read some more but i can't remember where they were anymore

Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 01:28:51 am by Velfarre

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#135 January 31, 2009, 01:28:43 am

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gotta disagree with johnny, with the economy in the shitter I'm not sure any tech company is looking for any entry level hires.

brian chemicals

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JohnnyCasil

#136 January 31, 2009, 05:25:12 am

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Quote from: Magical Negro on January 31, 2009, 01:28:43 am

gotta disagree with johnny, with the economy in the shitter I'm not sure any tech company is looking for any entry level hires.

Either pick a $60,000 year entry level, or a $80,000 ~ $100,000 old guy that is probably behind on current technology trends. It's much cheaper to hire an entry level guy and train him than keep a bunch of legacy people.

Quote from: Velfarre on January 31, 2009, 01:26:54 am

JohnnyCasil do you know more about why they weren't qualified? I've read a few things about how some schools teach purely Java CS programs and then students can't find jobs because they didn't learn some key things as well as it just being too easy. Is this what is happening? I could see how that could be a big issue, these articles talk about how a lot of schools make the CS major easier to get more people through it when really a lot of the people giving up on it really didn't need to be in it. If you know any specifics on the problems with these people applying for jobs I'd like to know, especially if any of them are things I should look into before graduating (although I also plan on getting my masters so it could be something I'll have covered later).

Mostly because of easy CS programs or people who do the least amount of work just to graduate. This is compounded by the fact that fewer and fewer people are taking engineering courses. For example, when I started college my CS program had roughly ~100 students. When I graduated there were like ~15. Most of which were horribly not ready to work for a real company.

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Evangel

#137 January 31, 2009, 07:50:08 am

brown priyde yea mayne
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Quote from: The Octave Doctor on January 30, 2009, 08:18:50 pm

marcus and coxwain i think are in the navy.

marcus is the one i meant. COXSWAIN on the other hand i know is in the merchant marines.

Quote from: Coxswain on January 30, 2009, 08:53:07 pm

I went to school with him but I'm not sure he'd be interested in what I'm apart of.

You can train to be a mechanical engineer but thats more like engine and mechanical work. You can learn alot of useful shit and eventually become an electrician making 60-80k a year on mid range paying ships. The advantage over the navy imo is after a year of going to school you're free to go on your own, get your own jobs and go where you want to go. You don't have to stay with anyone or do anything you choose not to do.

You can also take your skills and find your own work: for instance I got a buddy with an uncle that invests in a shipping company I'm trying to get with.

If this works out like I'm hoping since they're going to need a crew and they're looking for basically anyone with a good attitude, with all of the identification and endorsements I have I can go and work for them and I'll be like fucking gold to them. It won't take me long at all to climb up the ladder and with a small company like that they'll be itching to make me a mate or a captain in a few years. I'm probably going to try and leave union work for awhile if this works out because my local hall is shit and I don't have the money right now to drive to Louisiana/Jacksonville and rent a hotel until something comes up.

Anyways the point I was trying to make is its good money and easy work if you're interested. But you've got to be disciplined and willing to go out and find work/compete for jobs. Its kind of hard in this area right now because the economy is in the tank but I'm sure it will pick up in the next year or two at the latest and by then you'll be ready to go out on your own.

I can talk to you about it if you're actually interested but its something to think about rather than signing your future away for someone else to ultimately determine what you'll be doing if they feel like sticking you somewhere else because the specialized area you want is full up.

merchant marines has always been an option to me, as i've always been interested in traveling by water and seeing new places, but i didn't know if it had any technical education involved with it. i'm really just interested in the regular paycheck/education/experience even if it includes a few years of the ups and downs of the military.

btw weren't you at ollie's tonight?

keep posting...

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Farren

#138 January 31, 2009, 10:57:15 am

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yeah dude they wouldn't let me drink because I lied and said I didn't have an ID to see if I could get away with it. My birthday is in like a fucking day and we had to sneak in the back and chug the shit down like highschoolers or something.

It was p funny because some drunk jackass backed into that cinder block barricade and knocked it down it was so goddamn funny.

And like I said about four months ago if you want to meet up for lunch or just call me to hang out we can meet up sometime you got freetime and I can tell you what it would be like if you want to check it out.

Adam's the one with the connections I'm trying to get the hookup with. I'm waiting for his uncle to call him back so hopefully this will work out but you never know.

DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS

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Farren

#139 January 31, 2009, 11:09:14 am

I fear and I tremble
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I was also drinking and let my brother's gf shoot one of those 4 inch needle tipped blowdart guns at my leg twice. She gave it to my brother and he shot me it went pretty goddamn deep and everyone else was pretty sure it hit the bone.

I don't feel anything though except a little bit or soreness.

Edit: But yes if you go engine its got a very technical aspect, you can go up from there to an engineer which is like a mate but its gonna take some sailing. Also, being an AB (like me) has its own advantages if you want to learn navigation and traditional sea stuff its also the track you've got to take to get to captain. You could also go steward dept and cook/take care of the ship's stock and stuff if that course appeals to you.

Also Adam might join the site if someone would U.N.B.A.N. H.I.M.

Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 11:33:24 am by Coxswain

DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS

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WunderBread

#140 February 01, 2009, 04:37:48 am

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Quote from: Velfarre on January 31, 2009, 01:26:54 am

edit: dang this was a longer post than i thought it was, oh well anyway this is one of the articles that talks about the java/easy cs program thing, i read some more but i can't remember where they were anymore

Haha, oh shit, this article uses my university as the ur-example of a Java School. (The guy actually attended my school.) Fortunately, I think the program has changed a lot since the author graduated. At the very least, there's nothing stopping you from taking the more advanced courses that make you more interesting to hiring companies.

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