Well let's just say Games Design is ONE of my career choices but I doubt I will ever do it, I'm looking along other areas of ICT which I can do.
But yeah if Computer Science is really what Velfarre and Crumply described then it doesn't sound too bad as I thought it would be.

There's also the way of looking at it that I did when I chose what I wanted to do. Mixing work and play - will you end up hating what you love now? I considered this and thought that I would definitely keep my hobbies (i.e. making games and music) separate from my career, but somehow related.

I went with electrical and electronic engineering which is similar and in the same department as computer science but more hardware oriented also we do about massive power electronics systems like generators and motors and their control circuitry so you really could choose to specialise in a lot of things. It is however heavily mathematically involved (I don't know if compsci is to such a horrible level, I have 2 compsci mates who do a lot of my units but not maths).

As someone who has a degree in computer science, I want to elaborate on what Velfarre said in regards to CS vs Game Design.  Sure, you can take a game design course and learn how to make games, but that is what is wrong with those courses.  The video game industry moves at such a fast pace you have to be able to stay competitive in the field if you want to keep your job or ever move up from being a lowly level 1.  Getting a game design degree will teach you how to make games with current technology and how your instructor things games are made.  What do you think will happen if you get a job with a company that wants to make a cutting edge game using methodologies different than what you were taught.

This is why getting a CS makes you a much more attractive employee.  A CS degree is not ALL programming.  A CS degree teaches you the problems in problems in developing software and the approaches used to solve them.  This is so much more valuable because instead you will end up with a more diverse "toolbox" to solve problems with than someone who took a course that was so limited in scope they can't see beyond what they learned.  There is a saying, "If all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail."  Well that is what taking a course in game design is going to give you, a single hammer.  Good luck if you ever decide to leave that field, if you even get in it in the first place.

I was thinking of leaving game making as a hobby anyway, I was just worried that I wouldn't be able to cope in university if I chose Computer Science. I know I can do many things if I am able to graduate with a Computer Science degree so that is good I like a big variety of choices.

i've done it, and that's why it's so bloody obvious to me why most ppl here don't have the foggiest idea what they're talking about. you think you only learn how to design levels when you pick gamedesign? you get photoshop, GML, C+, flash actionscript, 3dsmax, drawing, and what not. even if you do gamedesign and even if it turns out you can't find a job in that business, at the end of the road you'll have enough knowledge to get a job in some other business. the only way you can really find out though is to just do it and see if it fits you. you can't honestly talk seriously about a gamedesign course until you've done it.

Everything you listed can be learned on your own (if you say 3DSMAX PROFICIENT most employers aren't going to give a shit WHERE you learned that stuff as long as you have a portfolio of work to back it up) OR as module choices in a computer science degree. Basically any CS course has modules you can pick that would be useful in gamez like artificial intelligence, graphics theory etc and also you get the actual stuff employers are looking for. You miss so much on a game design course from CS (apart from in the first year which is usually shared) it's hilarious.

I mean come on photoshop? lol. C+ sic? sdmfsdmpsdmf

Doing a degree in game design is like trying to become a doctor by only taking classes on how the lungs work.  Learn the basics now, specialize later.  You're just fucking yourself if you do a game design degree, especially since most game companies aren't hiring very often, and if they are they're ONLY looking for people with experience.

This is so much more valuable because instead you will end up with a more diverse "toolbox" to solve problems with than someone who took a course that was so limited in scope they can't see beyond what they learned.

Haha I'm really glad you said this, last year a CS teacher at my university retired (luckily I got to have him for a class first), he was a really old guy who started the first CS program at the school, and most of the other CS teachers there were his students before.  Because of this, all of the CS teachers there always reference the fact that he would constantly talk about how you can't just copy code down, you have to learn how it works and what it means, and then "add it to your toolbox and make it your own".  It's pretty much a joke around our CS program (not as in the idea is a joke, just quoting that line is a joke--it's really very good advice!)

You know, I don't really see how you CAN get a legitimate degree in game design.  The amount of cutting corners you'd have to do compared to a CS degree would have to be insane, because after two years of my CS degree I would still have a hard time coding a game without doing a lot of independent learning.  You'd have to do a lot of cheating and leave a lot of important stuff out in order to be making full games in the same amount of time, and no one would hire someone who didn't learn the things you'd be leaving out.

You know, I don't really see how you CAN get a legitimate degree in game design.  The amount of cutting corners you'd have to do compared to a CS degree would have to be insane, because after two years of my CS degree I would still have a hard time coding a game without doing a lot of independent learning.  You'd have to do a lot of cheating and leave a lot of important stuff out in order to be making full games in the same amount of time, and no one would hire someone who didn't learn the things you'd be leaving out.

The only place I have ever heard of that is worth while for getting a game design degree is DigiPen.  The only reason for this is that I've heard there game development program is really only one step away from a CS program.  The question is, is it worth it to spend all that extra money to go to DigiPen, or just get a traditional CS degree.  In my case it isn't worth it at all.

But it is true what you said about them cutting corners.  I remember someone that posts here was saying how great his game design program was. I looked up his school and their course catalogue.  They had a course on "Developing an MMORPG".  Yea, it only takes companies many years and millions of dollars to create a passable MMORPG.  These game design courses must have stumbled upon the holy grail of design for them to fit all that in a single semester.

The only place I have ever heard of that is worth while for getting a game design degree is DigiPen.  The only reason for this is that I've heard there game development program is really only one step away from a CS program.  The question is, is it worth it to spend all that extra money to go to DigiPen, or just get a traditional CS degree.  In my case it isn't worth it at all.

But it is true what you said about them cutting corners.  I remember someone that posts here was saying how great his game design program was. I looked up his school and their course catalogue.  They had a course on "Developing an MMORPG".  Yea, it only takes companies many years and millions of dollars to create a passable MMORPG.  These game design courses must have stumbled upon the holy grail of design for them to fit all that in a single semester.

Yes that is true, they cut corners and they usually don't last very long, I've checked some college and university websites and most of the courses don't last longer than one year but the one I applied for was 4 years long so that's just the odd one out I guess.

EDIT: I've just read another article concerning games design and it did say not to choose a games design course but instead get a liberal education whatever that means...

do what ya love.

Most games dev companies hate games design courses though, they prefer to employ people who are highly qualified in specific areas and then train them to their mould. Games design courses are always outdated and by time you graduate you're about three years behind in the market(which is a big gap). Companies like Crytek go out of their way and flat out refuse to employ anybody with a general games design course because it's effectively useless for what they do. Games Design courses are considered a joke and detrimental to the industry. (basically stop reading shit like gamespot and read better sites and articles and interviews about this kinda thing pop up every two months or so)
Companies want people who can do a job successfully, so they'll employ the one with the best qualifications for that specific job, and not a broad range of stuff they'll never use.

EDIT: I've just read another article concerning games design and it did say not to choose a games design course but instead get a liberal education whatever that means...

That means that they'd rather you get a CS degree, with more liberal arts-ish classes around it.  That sounds like pretty much what I am doing, I am going to a liberal arts school and doing a CS degree there.  That means that I'm getting the CS stuff I need, as well as being exposed to other classes too.  Basically, study CS, but don't take JUST CS classes.  Companies want well-rounded people, they don't want someone who can program but knows nothing outside of programming.

Here's something you might want to read:  http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CollegeAdvice.html

It's not based around game design specifically, but it has a lot of good advice for the CS field, including why taking non-CS classes is important.

Well after reading people's posts especially JohnnyCasil, Velfarre and Crumply's I think I chose a good course, here is a link for my course details: http://www.kcl.ac.uk/ugp09/programme/30

EDIT: This univeristy also has a good reputation so that is also a good thing.

I can't really give you much advice on that considering I don't have any idea how your school system works over there, but I will say that your courses seem very similar to the ones in my CS program, although they're broken up into more classes than we have.  How long are your classes?

i want to make games you cannot sto[p me.

although i'm majoring in cs not game design.

Ok, I'll explain what is on the site:

Modules are the same as units.
1 Year = 2 Semesters.

Year 1 I will be doing a total of 8 core modules which means I will be doing all 8 of them in one year or semester as you would like to call it. Year 2 will be a total of 8 core modules as well, Year 3 however I will be doing 8 modules but I get to choose 7 of them from the list they have given there on the site. In year 4 my final year I will be doing one core module and I get to choose 6 other modules.

EDIT: I don't know how long each lecture is but I'm guessing it will be one hour.
EDIT2: MY bad a semester is 6 months not the same as a year. so 1 year will be 2 semesters.

I understand all that (our semesters are not a year, by the way, we usually have two per year), what I mean is how long is a class, as in how many hours are you in that class on a given day?

Your course of studies differs from mine the most because you're taking all CS classes it looks like, whereas I take one or two CS classes per semester (but it looks like I'm covering the same stuff you are in those one or two classes).

yeah this semester i am taking 0 cs courses because i have to take some stupid 1 credit math course that doesn't start until 2/3rds of the way through the semester that is a requirement for basically every cs class, but next semester i will take 3 or 4.

What I mean is how long is a class, as in how many hours are you in that class on a given day?

To be honest I do not know.... how long each class is...

The only required math class in my CS program is Calculus I, and it's not a prerequisite for any of the classes so I can take it any time.

The only required math class in my CS program is Calculus I, and it's not a prerequisite for any of the classes so I can take it any time.

Erm, when you say Calculus do you mean stuff like: Differentiation, Integration, Tangents, Normals and etc, because if that is so I nearly passed that when I was doing A-level Maths I was only 4 marks short of a pass... I will admit I didn't try though so I'm not surprised.

Erm, when you say Calculus do you mean stuff like: Differentiation, Integration, Tangents, Normals and etc, because if that is so I nearly passed that when I was doing A-level Maths I was only 4 marks short of a pass... I will admit I didn't try though so I'm not surprised.

Yes, that is what I mean.  However, like I said, it really depends on the school.  Most CS programs started out almost exactly like the math programs of any given school (one of my teachers got a major in math because after doing his CS major he only had to take two or so more classes), but they've all changed over time.  However, how MUCH they've changed depends on the school, so it really just depends.  Maybe you should email the CS department at your school and ask them what you need to know about their math requirements.