Topic: Who else works at Papa John's? (Read 28388 times)

  • None of them knew they were robots.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3242
It works well for those that don't touch them. Saying it doesn't work because some kids do it anyway is kind of misisng the point of personalised education. If you tell the negative effects of alcohol/smoking to a class, and even one child doesn't do either as a result, then it's a good thing.

Maybe but think about it kids are told that drinking (for example, it could be using anything else) is evil all the time when they're kids but when they grow up most of them start drinking anyway  :fogetshrug:​ 

It's not going to work if it's seen as something cool to do amongst their group and the individual doesn't have a trauma against it
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
  • Avatar of Vellfire
  • TV people want to leave
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 13, 2004
  • Posts: 9602
If it's not going to work then why is it wrong to do?
I love this hobby - stealing your mother's diary
BRRING! BRRING!
Hello!  It's me, Vellfire!  FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER! ... Bye!  CLICK!  @gidgetnomates
  • None of them knew they were robots.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3242
If it's not going to work then why is it wrong to do?

Waste of time and resources
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
  • Avatar of Faust
  • Comedy Bronze
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Global Moderator
  • Joined: Nov 27, 2001
  • Posts: 1018
Quote
Maybe but think about it kids are told that drinking (for example, it could be using anything else) is evil all the time when they're kids but when they grow up most of them start drinking anyway  

It's not going to work if it's seen as something cool to do amongst their group and the individual doesn't have a trauma against it

Dude, we don't do it like that over here. We tell them the EFFECTS of drinking; morality never enters into it whatsoever. We still tell them not to do it, but we try to have more reasoned approaches, emphasising that it is NOT FOR CHILDREN!!!

Of course some students will always do it, and this is actually becoming more frequent nowadays. That doesn't mean we should STOP educating them about it though.


Quote
Waste of time and resources

You could just as easily say that, since under 50% of students gain qualifications in this country, teaching OVERALL is a waste of time and resources. After all, it 'doesn't work' on the majority.
Hey hey hey
  • None of them knew they were robots.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3242
Dude, we don't do it like that over here. We tell them the EFFECTS of drinking; morality never enters into it whatsoever. We still tell them not to do it, but we try to have more reasoned approaches, emphasising that it is NOT FOR CHILDREN!!!

Of course some students will always do it, and this is actually becoming more frequent nowadays. That doesn't mean we should STOP educating them about it though.


I'm not saying to stop doing anything that prevents them from entering the cruel world of addiction but if what you're doing is not working then it's better to stop trying. If you have something that is reliable and actually keeps people from using drugs rather than just letting them know that drinking causes heart attacks or meth causes tooth loss then go ahead

Quote
You could just as easily say that, since under 50% of students gain qualifications in this country, teaching OVERALL is a waste of time and resources. After all, it 'doesn't work' on the majority.

You could say that if you wanted to but the thing is, Drug Education Does Not Prevents People From Doing Drugs and there are studies that prove just that

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED071011&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED071011
Quote
This is a research project that was intended to study the effects of a factual drug education program on the attitudes on high school and junior high students toward the use of psychoactive drugs. The approximately 250 eighth and twelfth grade students involved in the study filled out a number of questionnaires designed to measure a variety of their attitudes about psychoactive drugs immediately before and after participating in a drug education program that relied heavily on the presentation of known facts about a variety of drugs. Analysis of the data indicated that the students learned about the given drugs to a highly significant degree, their curiosity about the effects of "mind-expanding" drugs was increased, and they exhibited an increased tendency to deal with psychological discomfort through the use of drugs. At the same time they reacted more favorably toward the legalization of marijuana and a reduction of penalties for drug use, and less favorably toward present emphasis on a legal approach to the use of drugs. The primary conclusion of the study is that drug education is not an effective means of suppressing the use of drugs. References and numerous tables are included. (Author)


The study is from 1972 by the way feel free to point out why it's wrong etc ( I haven't even read it to know what they mean by factual drug education)
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
  • Avatar of Faust
  • Comedy Bronze
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Global Moderator
  • Joined: Nov 27, 2001
  • Posts: 1018
Quote

I'm not saying to stop doing anything that prevents them from entering the cruel world of addiction but if what you're doing is not working then it's better to stop trying. If you have something that is reliable and actually keeps people from using drugs rather than just letting them know that drinking causes heart attacks or meth causes tooth loss then go ahead


Like I say, it does work in many cases. You personally believe that children SHOULDN'T be educated about drugs at all, and should find out from their peers?

I've already commented with a few examples earlier in the thread where this, has in fact, happened. I have very good friends who won't even try drugs due to the education they received at school, regardless of whether or not it was 'honest' (as it wasn't when I was at school myself). If you read back, you can see these examples. Like I say, your charge that it doesn't work at all and it is a waste of time is ridiculous. I do appreciate what you say at the end - for example, visits by ex-heroin addicts have done wonders, and their anecdotes have changed a few students' perceptions about drugs. But yes, education is education. Stopping it just because a few kids won't take it on board would be terrible.

Also 'giving up trying' shows that you REALLY don't understand the nature of teaching hehe.

Quote
You could say that if you wanted to but the thing is, Drug Education Does Not Prevents People From Doing Drugs and there are studies that prove just that

Erm, no. You totally missed my point. Drug education doesn't stop ALL people from doing drugs, but it does STOP SOME.

Because you have produced a graduate paper in this topic from your hat, it does not prove that drug education is TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE whatsoever. There've been studies that show EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE to this study - that's the beauty of these kinds of "studies". In fact, if we have a look at current drug education policy in my country:

Quote
"It is important drug education is based on evidence about what works and what clearly does not work. Many drug education programmes have been evaluated in this country, other European countries and America. Collectively they show that:

•The impact of drug education on drug using behaviour has been shown to be limited. Drug education alone is unlikely to prevent young people from ever experimenting with drugs.
•‘Just Say No’ and ‘shock/ scare’ approaches are likely to be ineffective and may even be counterproductive.
Good quality drug education can impact on changes in specific drug using patterns and reduce the use of drugs and associated problems for young people.
Drug education can contribute towards decreased harm and increased safety for young people, their families and communities. Drug education has been part of effective needle exchange schemes, ‘safer dancing’ initiatives and ‘drink-driving’. However, the impact of more general, and particularly school-based, drug education on reducing drug-related harm (rather than whether or not people have ever used drugs) has not been measured in any studies.
‘Establishing the effectiveness of drug education is a complex task. Almost all evaluations of programmes have been inconclusive in terms of perceived results in reducing or preventing drug use. Where programmes have shown positive results, the benefits have been in improved knowledge, decision-making skills, and improved self-esteem. Personal and social skills, however, have not been shown in themselves to relate directly to the prevention of drug use’. "

'Protecting Young People - 2008' , DfES.

So yeah, studies are INCONCLUSIVE. Some say that drug education alone doesn't work (notice the word ALONE), some say that drug education raises the standards of living for communities.

It's amusing that people who state that drug education is a WASTE OF TIME, as if they know more than the people making the policies on the issue. Just because it doesn't work on SOME students does not mean that it's a waste of time.

Besides, even if they do use, at least they're EDUCATED about the effects. No one can say "I JUST DIDN'T KNOW!!!".


Quote
The study is from 1972 by the way feel free to point out why it's wrong etc ( I haven't even read it to know what they mean by factual drug education)

Aside from the fact that it's entirely based on the flawed research of SURVEYS COMPLETED BY MINORS IN THE SEVENTIES? That's where it draws its data - forms filled out by students themselves. We were subjected to such an ordeal when I was in school myself, based on a paper about sexual abuse. A fair few of us wrote down humorous sexual encounters on the survey, even though we were all totally lying. One friend even said he was raped by his dog. Immature? Yes, but we were children. And children lie on forms.

When filling out a survey with "DID DRUG EDUCATION MAKE YOU NOT WANT TO DO DRUGS", how many do you really think are going to reply "YES I WILL NEVER NOW" when filling it out? Absurd.

Plus, lest we forget, children lie pretty constantly. So yeah, while this survey-based 'study' might have SOME value in the debate, it really isn't the be all and end all that proves drug education to have no effect whatsoever.
Hey hey hey
  • None of them knew they were robots.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3242
I'm not going to reply to all that because I'm not good at debating but I'm not saying that each and every drug education whatever is completely useless and should be terminated, I just said that telling kids not to do drugs (like velfarre said but it was marijuana which is mostly harmless) doesn't work at all and is a waste of time. OK, maybe knowing the evil effects of (insert drug) will keep someone from using it but only if they're not peer pressured into it
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
  • Avatar of Vellfire
  • TV people want to leave
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 13, 2004
  • Posts: 9602
OK, maybe knowing the evil effects of (insert drug) will keep someone from using it but only if they're not peer pressured into it

You say this like peer pressure always works.
I love this hobby - stealing your mother's diary
BRRING! BRRING!
Hello!  It's me, Vellfire!  FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER! ... Bye!  CLICK!  @gidgetnomates
  • None of them knew they were robots.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3242
You say this like peer pressure always works.

Hahahah because it does

Velfarre: "It didn't WORK FOR me"

Maybe for you it doesn't but for everyone else it has a 90% success rate

Like, I know plastic bags are evil and you should use the reusable cloth ones but I use the plastic bags anyway because everyone else I see is also using them. This is probably not peer pressure but people will do not so good things just to fit in with the rest which is what I meant
Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 08:42:06 pm by Mince Wobley
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
  • Avatar of Kaworu
  • kaworu*Sigh*Isnt he the cutest person ever
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 12, 2002
  • Posts: 5755
is that really your excuse for using plastic bags and not plain lazyness/convinience?
  • Avatar of mkkmypet
  • Fuzzball of Doom!!!11one
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 5, 2003
  • Posts: 1204
Hahahah because it does

Velfarre: "It didn't WORK FOR me"

Maybe for you it doesn't but for everyone else it has a 90% success rate

Like, I know plastic bags are evil and you should use the reusable cloth ones but I use the plastic bags anyway because everyone else I see is also using them. This is probably not peer pressure but people will do not so good things just to fit in with the rest which is what I meant

uhh i don't think that's about peer pressure, that's more about convenience and being part of the majority. peer pressure would be like if everyone you knew was telling you it's not COOL to use cloth bags or whatever.

i'm just speaking from personal experience really but i don't think that peer pressure is as big of a deal in terms of drug use as people say it is. like, it's only an issue if the friends you grew up with turn into druggies. there are plenty of people who don't do drugs and their friends don't either. for them it's simply an issue of "do i want to risk ruining my life or not?" because they know there's a very real possibility of being caught with illegal drugs.

i do drugs but i don't really have many friends who do. my primary friend group all tells me not to. i experiment with drugs because i get stressed or anxious and they make me feel better or they're fun. but i realize that they're still "bad". not immoral, but just unhealthy mentally and often physically. not many people know that i do this stuff, so it's definitely not to "be cool" or whatever.

i think drug education is a good thing. even if it doesn't make kids NOT DO DRUGS, it lets them know the negative things that they would never hear elsewhere. it tells kids that it's okay to say no to things they don't want, which is an important skill for everyone. i think that telling kids the bad things about drugs works, because hey, we don't see the majority of students going off and shooting up heroin or becoming addicted to meth or crack. they're taught honestly how addictive and damaging those are. it's important to at least give kids the information, and then its up to the individuals to decide whether to heed it or not.

for example, i will never smoke cigarettes. we had a unit in science class where they showed us all this anti-smoking stuff. it was really sad to see people who had holes in their tracheas, tumors from lung cancer, raspy voices, etc... i don't want to take the risk that i could turn out like that. the slight "buzz" you get from cigarettes is not good enough to warrant having a lifetime addiction to it. i was disgusted by all the crap that i learned they put in cigarettes. plus, i'd feel horrible knowing that my second-hand smoke could bother people and affect them. there were plenty of people who ignored that unit completely and went on to smoke, but i'm not one of them. besides, even the people who DO smoke will still remember that stuff from class. it's not that they don't KNOW the bad possibilities, it's just that they choose to ignore them. but knowing is still important, and so teaching it is important too.
semper games.
  • Avatar of Vellfire
  • TV people want to leave
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 13, 2004
  • Posts: 9602
I love this hobby - stealing your mother's diary
BRRING! BRRING!
Hello!  It's me, Vellfire!  FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER! ... Bye!  CLICK!  @gidgetnomates
  • Avatar of fatty
  • i am a swordsman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 20, 2004
  • Posts: 2303
How come you seem so "experienced" with drugs while you're just fifteen years old? Should I read your earlier posts in this topic, because this just baffles me for some reason.SATAN
  • Avatar of Kaworu
  • kaworu*Sigh*Isnt he the cutest person ever
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 12, 2002
  • Posts: 5755
I never got smoking. Like it gives you a cough, and that's at. Like I enjoy being drunk or high, but when trying fags it was just like *cough cough* and no effects at all. What's the point?

Fatty,  there are 10 year olds addicted to meth. Loads of my friends were on drugs by 15, it can't be that suprising.
  • None of them knew they were robots.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3242
is that really your excuse for using plastic bags and not plain lazyness/convinience?

Yes I even have a cloth one and could use it but at the market everyone else I see is using the plastic ones and when I take the plastic ones I think about the turtles and seagulls I'm about to kill
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
  • Avatar of fatty
  • i am a swordsman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 20, 2004
  • Posts: 2303
Fatty,  there are 10 year olds addicted to meth. Loads of my friends were on drugs by 15, it can't be that suprising.
I dunno, maybe I live in a bubble of endless supreme glee and ignorance or something. I don't find it weird, I guess I just think it's uncommon for some reason.
  • Avatar of Vellfire
  • TV people want to leave
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 13, 2004
  • Posts: 9602
Yes I even have a cloth one and could use it but at the market everyone else I see is using the plastic ones and when I take the plastic ones I think about the turtles and seagulls I'm about to kill

you are a very weak person then
I love this hobby - stealing your mother's diary
BRRING! BRRING!
Hello!  It's me, Vellfire!  FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER! ... Bye!  CLICK!  @gidgetnomates
  • Avatar of big ass skelly
  • Ò_Ó
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 12, 2002
  • Posts: 4313
Drugs are bad m'kay -- mr mackey, south park elementary counsellor.
  • None of them knew they were robots.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Nov 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3242
you are a very weak person then

I could still beat you and your whole family up
Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)


I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb
  • I fear and I tremble
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Aug 21, 2005
  • Posts: 6165
Quote
I could still beat you and your whole family up

OHHHHHHH SHTI
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
Locked