Help AMD-intel (Read 1067 times)

  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
What i want to know is at the moment, who is ahead? i mean taking into acount basic performance and motherboard things like SATA 3 and USB 3, i'm asking becuase i've tried looking for some quick look up info and i can't really find what i want to know. Soooo ill ask here.

is it worth getting an i7 or the amd equivlent phenom CPUs or whatever they have.
i'm asking becasue the mobo is dependent on what cpu i go for (and to some degree so is the GPU)

i'm thinking AMD becuase aparrantly intel  mobo's doesn't suppourt SATA 3 and USB3, or at least not propperly.
Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 04:16:38 pm by Swordfish
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • Avatar of Carrion Crow
  • I need to watch things die
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 5, 2006
  • Posts: 3516
Can you wait a few months?

http://www.siliconmadness.com/2009/09/amd-phenom-ii-x6-coming-in-2010.html
  • Avatar of `~congresman Ron paul~~
  • Legio Morbidius
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jan 18, 2006
  • Posts: 2653
ugh, get a really fast dual core or a decent quad core, don't waste money on a 6 core processing unit designed for superthreaded rendering and number crunching apps

That’s right, you have the young gaming with the old(er), white people gaming with black people, men and women, Asian countries gaming with the EU, North Americans gaming with South Americans. Much like world sporting events like the Wolrd Cup, or the Olympics will bring together different nations in friendly competition, (note the recent Asian Cup; Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia, no violence there) we come together. The differences being, we are not divided by our nationalities and we do it 24-7, and on a personal level.

We are a community without borders and without colours, the spirit and diversity of the gaming community is one that should be looked up to, a spirit and diversity other groups should strive toward.
  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
ah i noticed some about that but i'm still not sure. i've just read a review on an AM3 mobo and it's not looking all that good, tbh except for a few tests it fails against an intel equivlent i5 with the amd being tested with the best am3 CPU atm, still i'm not going to get one just yet, i just wanted some info so i know what to get when i decide to do it, my current rig is still pretty good so i doubt i'll need to update it just yet, it might be 4 years old but it can still run every game that's been out so far at max graphics at a decent resolution.

p.s. i do a 3D art and this intrests me becuase i know more cores = faster rendering.
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • salt world mechanic
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Posts: 553
Just wait until I come out with my homebrew 40 core processor in a few weeks.  You'll be glad you invested early.
  • aye ess dee eff el cay jay ache
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 24, 2005
  • Posts: 5149
if you're going to wait for what may be a better cpu you have more options with an amd motherboard. intel currently has the best out if you want to drop a whole lot of cash quickly, but that's to be expected if you want the latest gear
I USE Q'S INSTEQD OF Q'S
  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
I think ill wait for the hexacore CPU's from amd since that will help in my 3D renderings and i won't need money (since i'll be at home instead of at accomadation)
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • salt world mechanic
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Posts: 553
because you totally couldn't do that on something current.  Got to have the most cores to support multiple dimensions!  Tool.
  • Avatar of Vellfire
  • TV people want to leave
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Feb 13, 2004
  • Posts: 9602
correct me if i'm wrong but don't more cores not mean anything useful unless the OS and/or software you're running takes advantage of it?  which a lot of the commercial stuff doesn't yet?
I love this hobby - stealing your mother's diary
BRRING! BRRING!
Hello!  It's me, Vellfire!  FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER! ... Bye!  CLICK!  @gidgetnomates
  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
just so you know, offline renderers like lightwave, maya use the CPU to render not the GPU (though now there starting to, the next version of lightwave will use the GPU) so just to retrospect: I do  3D art and this intrests me becuase i know more cores = faster rendering.
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • aye ess dee eff el cay jay ache
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 24, 2005
  • Posts: 5149
correct me if i'm wrong but don't more cores not mean anything useful unless the OS and/or software you're running takes advantage of it?  which a lot of the commercial stuff doesn't yet?

yep.
i imagine CAD stuff and other pure math programs support higher cores/threas/processors to accommodate multi-cpu and multi-computer setups though.

also thanks for that tidbit, i was wondering why it intrested you, since i see a lot of people that are into gaming don't seem to be intrested. i think the proposed fermi architecture by nvidea supports hardware acceleration in situations like that though, there was some video posted and they raytraced a model car in real time. it was fairly intresting!
I USE Q'S INSTEQD OF Q'S
  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
yep.
i imagine CAD stuff and other pure math programs support higher cores/threas/processors to accommodate multi-cpu and multi-computer setups though.

also thanks for that tidbit, i was wondering why it intrested you, since i see a lot of people that are into gaming don't seem to be intrested. i think the proposed fermi architecture by nvidea supports hardware acceleration in situations like that though, there was some video posted and they raytraced a model car in real time. it was fairly intresting!
ah i watched a movie about that. that's just to show that using a GPU raytracing is getting faster (but not fast enough to use it in real time) in lightwave it can take somthing like 10 mins to render a simple scene with raytracing, that's like low poly, low res, low amount of effects reflections lights etc. it's showing that consumer raytradcing (and raytracing on the GPU) is now viable and that in the future, it can only get better (wow, pun) i had a scene take 30 mins to render one single frame... ah i do have something rendered with raytracing that i did as a poster, i was proud becuase it was my first proper model i put work into and my first attempt at lighting composition i could link if your interested and explain why ray tracing is so desrable as a rendering method if you want.

EDIT: For the record, i would love a dualce CPU am3 mobo so i can plug two hexacores into it, that would be for INSAIN rendering :D (well compaired to what i have now at least, 3X more since it's 3X more cores)
Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 01:08:14 am by Swordfish
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • aye ess dee eff el cay jay ache
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 24, 2005
  • Posts: 5149
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OptiX
I USE Q'S INSTEQD OF Q'S
  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
huh, i thought it wasn't real time raytracing, just faster becuase of what the dude in the video clip said, that you get a composit version when your moving it around and stuff and then when the final picture is taken it raytraces it, but reguardless it still wouldn't be fast enough for high pacing but it show's that it's getting there.
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • aye ess dee eff el cay jay ache
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 24, 2005
  • Posts: 5149
what's happening is at the silicon level, the nanolevel substrate on which the architecture is constructed specifically for iterates calculations during both pre and post filter analyses and it allows the rendering to be done dynamically at this level based on quantum theoretical stuff (since the pixels are reduced to such a point)
I USE Q'S INSTEQD OF Q'S
  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
Ok, that just went way over my head, i only some what understood that, since when did processing units use quantum mechanics i thought that wasn't doable just yet?
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • aye ess dee eff el cay jay ache
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 24, 2005
  • Posts: 5149
uhhhh the new falsetto double jump has allowed it for a fair while but it's one of those things that until the code can come along at a more basic level and facilitate optimisation no-one in their right mind is going to attempt to utilitise it. writing a whole new instruction set isn't for hobbyists on linux
I USE Q'S INSTEQD OF Q'S
  • Avatar of dragonx
  • I r TEH DrAgOn RaR
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 24, 2002
  • Posts: 1596
i think after reading this i love you climbtree
  • Avatar of Swordfish
  • Comrade!?! I AM NOT A FUCKING RUSSIAN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 12, 2003
  • Posts: 1074
uhhhh the new falsetto double jump has allowed it for a fair while but it's one of those things that until the code can come along at a more basic level and facilitate optimisation no-one in their right mind is going to attempt to utilitise it. writing a whole new instruction set isn't for hobbyists on linux
well duh, it requires understanding of CPU architecture and how command sets are added to a CPU circuitry wise and how to intergrate it into a CPU. Currently the most used CPU ever is the ARM architecture, then x86 and it's extension X64, I'm not sure if it's more or less popular then power PC, you also have Solaris is from SUN (the java guys) and umm... i can't remember any more ATM.

the problem with designing a quantum CPU is that current architecture understanding would have to be scrapped and an entirely new from the ground up frame work would have to be implemented along with it's understanding.
i think quantum CPU's are either going to be quantum processing units inside of a more known wrapper style architecture so it's easier to connect to or a hybrid that uses modern CPU architecture but uses quantum mechanics for actual data processing, storage and moving data about (quantum entanglement).
RIP DoktorMartini

My brute!
  • Avatar of reko
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Jun 11, 2002
  • Posts: 883
well duh, it requires understanding of CPU architecture and how command sets are added to a CPU circuitry wise and how to intergrate it into a CPU. Currently the most used CPU ever is the ARM architecture, then x86 and it's extension X64, I'm not sure if it's more or less popular then power PC, you also have Solaris is from SUN (the java guys) and umm... i can't remember any more ATM.

the problem with designing a quantum CPU is that current architecture understanding would have to be scrapped and an entirely new from the ground up frame work would have to be implemented along with it's understanding.
i think quantum CPU's are either going to be quantum processing units inside of a more known wrapper style architecture so it's easier to connect to or a hybrid that uses modern CPU architecture but uses quantum mechanics for actual data processing, storage and moving data about (quantum entanglement).
the problem with quantum CPU design is that the current instruction set of ARM-based architectures are limited to 64-bit transfers on maximum of 4 to 6 cores depending on the specification of the ISO-9001 standard. for example the following code would not work on a quantum CPU:
int main(int argv, char *argv[]) {
    __asm {
        mov     cl,byte ptr [DGROUP:CMD_LINE_LEN]
        or      cl,cl
        jz      Usage
        mov     si,CMD_LINE             
        mov     al,' '                 
        repe    cmpsb
        mov     dx,si
        repne   cmpsb
        cmp     byte ptr [si],SPACE
        ja      skip
        mov     byte ptr [si],NUL
        mov     si,seg DGROUP           
        mov     ds,si                   
        mov     es,si
        mov     si,offset err_fopen
    }
}

the issue is that when the core numbers increases the processor can't guarantee the atomicity of a transfer on the current instruction set implementation, and this can result in a heap corruption which basically means instability, loss of data, and at worst case bsod. The boost foundation has suggested an implementation that would fix this issue, but it's still a work in progress, and it might take a few years for the design to be finalized. but basically the suggestion entails introducing an EBNF-like grammer to the C/C++ languages that lets you bypass the limitations of the current instruction-set (basically it just creates a shared lock on the memory address so only maximum of 4 to 6 cores can access a particular memory address at a given time window). here's an example of how it works:

namespace arm_instr_fix
{
    template <typename Iterator>
    bool instr_complex(Iterator first, Iterator last, std::complex<int>& c)
    {
        using boost::instr::qi::double_;
        using boost::instr::qi::_1;
        using boost::instr::qi::phrase_instruction;
        using boost::instr::ascii::space;
        using boost::phoenix::ref;

        double rN = 0.0;
        double iN = 0.0;
        bool r = phrase_instruction(first, last, // continuous integration of phrase instruction lock
            (
                    '(' >> double_[ref(rN) = _1]
                        >> -(',' >> double_[ref(iN) = _1]) >> ')'
                |   double_[ref(rN) = _1]
            ),

            space);

        if (!r || first != last) // fail if we did not get a full lock
            return false;
        c = std::complex<double>(rN, iN);
        return r;
    }
}

if this suggestion gets approved and manufactures start to adapt it in their products, we could see quantum cpus in the near future.

big thanx to dragonslayer for sig!