Topic: Dump topic for stuff thecatamites/bonzi_buddy/etc. might like (Read 281211 times)

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Yo I bet at least some of you salts knew this already but I guess that ECCO the dolphin was named after/inspired by a psychonaut called John Lilly who experimented with ketamine in the 70's?
 
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/Gorightly.htm
 
whotta world
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I read that on SA a few days ago!!!!!!! That link doesn't mention it but he also did an experiment where he had an assistant basically live alone with a dolphin for a while to try and encourage a rapport and she, the assistant, masturbated him and such. The dolphin. I heard about this experiment years before I heard about Lilly or even about ecco. http://www.joergo.de/tank/jl-bio.htm]Here[/url] is an interesting timeline of his life.
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Hello, saltumnavigators. Did you read this?

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-illusion-of-reality/479559/
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Philosophy masquerading as science. Solipsism justified by our limited understanding of quantum physics.
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I have a problem with "reality is an illusion". I know it's a statement/concept that has a power & a truth to many people. But...
 
The way I see it, calling something an illusion doesn't really say anything about the thing you're describing. You call something an illusion because your initial interpretation was wrong/inadequate, and you want to blame the thing. In the case of a magic show, you know that it's because a skilled performer anticipates and exploits the limits and quirks of your attention & perception. So of course you are quite right to blame the thing. But that situation, where you think along the lines of "a grand show is being put on, specifically for my benefit, designed and tuned to distract and mislead me"... that really seems like the wrong model to take with you when you go on to consider other, bigger kinds of illusion. It's too simplistic, self-centered. And I feel kinda distrustful of anything that encourages me to think that way.
 
Two things you might learn about the nature of reality during childhood. One: there's no Santa Claus (apologies for Christianish-culture-centric perspective here). Two: everything is made up of atoms - even the densest, heaviest object you can think of ain't truly, continuously "solid" in that way you would (likely) have otherwise always assumed. Of those two revelations, the one that people tend to reach for as a shorthand for "childhood reality betrayal" is the Santa Claus one. Like the magic show, it's all about being deliberately, continuously lied to. Getting tricked by a theatrical performance. (The Matrix movie with its famous character Red Pill is another example of Santa Claus/magic show-style reality betrayal.)
 
Do you remember the moment when you first understood that everything is made of atoms? Maybe you never really did. I mean, unless you actually work in specific scientific fields, you have no reason in daily life to ever face the fact of atomic reality, to take a decision that would mark you out as either an atom-believer or an atom-denier. 
 
Quote
Suppose in reality there’s a resource, like water, and you can quantify how much of it there is in an objective order—very little water, medium amount of water, a lot of water. Now suppose your fitness function is linear, so a little water gives you a little fitness, medium water gives you medium fitness, and lots of water gives you lots of fitness—in that case, the organism that sees the truth about the water in the world can win, but only because the fitness function happens to align with the true structure in reality. Generically, in the real world, that will never be the case. Something much more natural is a bell curve—say, too little water you die of thirst, but too much water you drown, and only somewhere in between is good for survival. Now the fitness function doesn’t match the structure in the real world. And that’s enough to send truth to extinction. For example, an organism tuned to fitness might see small and large quantities of some resource as, say, red, to indicate low fitness, whereas they might see intermediate quantities as green, to indicate high fitness. Its perceptions will be tuned to fitness, but not to truth. It won’t see any distinction between small and large—it only sees red—even though such a distinction exists in reality.
 
 
Is that really the best example? How was there ever any guarantee that this fitness function was about measuring the amount of water, with low/red meaning "less water" and high/green meaning "more water"? It's measuring something else, something a bit more complex. So what?
 
Also, wouldn't "not enough water" and "too much water" require different responses anyway? Like if there's no water, you can head in pretty much any direction you like in the search for more water. But if there's too much water, you are likely to really have to turn around and go back the way you came to avoid drowning. So whatever that secondary thing is that lets you differentiate your response, combined with the red/green system, that's what gives you your interpretation of too much/not enough water.
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bamcquern

To seize upon your mention of chess on  the last page, does anyone know if there are game designers out there working on games that computers will never be able to beat (or dominate) humans at (as a goal, if not an attainable one)?

What about designing games with the purpose of a Solved game being effectively impossible?

denzquix

To attack the problem from the other end, the sentiment that "reality is an illusion" usually (in my experience) carries with it the underlying assumption that "reality is an illusion and ergo without value".

This is an interesting absurd preposition, were it believed sincerely, rather than situationally where it benefits the person making the assertion for reality to be without value in that moment.

There's this idea that the illusionary (or the transient, or the experienced) has no value, has no reality, which stems from the unspoken cult of the eternal  that underlies humanities hierarchy of values. Where only the eternal is real.

If you were to apply this logic consistently interesting things happen. Reality has no value, but this doesn't do away with reality (or cease the experience of it), it just lowers it to the same status as all other "not real" things (or things that have their own reality, that is rarely acknowledged) such as dreams, videogames, radio dramas, children's lego models etc.

On one hand this is a monumentally powerful position, where anything you dream up has the same authority as reality, on the other it reveals absurdism as a kind of idealism, but an idealism experienced as a subject, or victim, in a world of competing idealisms, rather than as an agent, as under traditional romantic idealism.
Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 08:20:44 pm by obli
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what's the deal with michio kaku. is he credible at all. guy showed up in my youtube ads
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/
 
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https://twitter.com/erinkuhnkrueger/status/662287187745050624
 
coffee for the conspiracy/tin-foil hat market
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/
 
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probably best if you watch it muted and just let your imagination run riot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q8zuWkTBtQ
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The narration is a delight and essential imo. I love the story of when he got so frustrated with the game as a child that he started crying, and his mom threatened to write an angry letter to the developers and he had to talk her out of it, at which time she compromised by throwing the game away. Then he secretly fishes the game out of the trash!

The title screen is very familiar, too: it might be the game's second salty appearance.

That "consciousness all the way down" article should be taken as a psychedelic conceit or as a bit of fun, or at least as a springboard for further reading to figure out in which ways you agree or disagree. It reminds me of super celebrity nerd Jason Rohrer's infinite regression shooter (beyond a star filled sky or something like that?), in the way it posits successive, nested, corporate "consciousnesses" as shaping or being the totality of reality all the way down and all the way up. Btw what happened to super celebrity nerd Jason Rohrer?

I wonder what computers couldn't do without little skinnerian reinforcements. They're basically garbage without reinforcement, but they're capable of a lot of unusual emergent behavior under the guiding hand of a person to direct their goals. I like the idea of unsolvable puzzles and games, and I've always loved the idea of puzzles and games with concealed means and goals, like the towlr games. The cool thing about an unsolvable game is that engaged players would quickly create their own goals, and lots of the best games encourage this behavior anyway.
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I think I agree with denzquix. Just because our heuristic "lies" about reality doesn't mean we don't or can't understand the relationship between the heuristic and what is real, and even if we don't understand indications of what is real, that doesn't negate all of the truth-telling capabilities of our imperfect heuristic.

On the other hand, even though Hoffman's fitness hypothesis is simplified to the point of absurdity, in that it would be trivial to program conditionals whereby an organism capably evaluates its fitness re water, I think the whole point was to create a proof simple enough to demonstrate that "reality" and perfect knowledge don't trump fitness (he never says that reality and perfect knowledge must be a hindrance, though he implies that it can be).

I do think that Hoffman is more multidisciplinary and more knowledgable in the fields he writes about than many Atlantic commenters (et al) give him credit for, and that his publication record will bear this out.

Obli:
Can we call this value argument "obli's razor"? Tbh it probably has a name. I've definitely read some nihilistic-seeming philosophical arguments that later clarify their ethical uses or declare the reasons nihilism doesn't suit their ontology. People are uncomfortable with decentering human subjectivity, even when they do it in the name of "science" and "objectivity," but not every anthropologically decentering ontology is valueless or ethics-less!
Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 03:56:11 am by bamcquern
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probably best if you watch it muted and just let your imagination run riot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q8zuWkTBtQ
 &@bamcy @thecatamites

I made a sequel to jgj's games:
http://saltworld.net/forums/topic/14387-fucker-gamer-scum-get-stabbed/
 
The narration is a delight and essential imo. I love the story of when he got so frustrated with the game as a child that he started crying, and his mom threatened to write an angry letter to the developers and he had to talk her out of it, at which time she compromised by throwing the game away. Then he secretly fishes the game out of the trash!
I like that, it's hard to imagine a kid playing these games like angry birds. I never pictured them that way. really, it's hard to imagine them as anything but a bizarre gem in a deep, dusty web archive of zx spectrum games
Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 12:53:24 pm by Elder Chips
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http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=luqdKfoZfPM&p=n
http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/
 
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Does anyone here remember a game, possibly for Sega Saturn or 3D0, about a kid who gets some weird robotic armor after a pizza delivery to his house, or possibly he was the pizza delivery guy? And there was a female lead character also? The armor was blue and white...I can't remember the name, or find it anywhere. Did I dream it...?
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Sounds like the kind of game that would be on the 3DO.
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I tried to find it and couldn't. It sure sounds cool.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1yi4AOuM1w
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Hey uh, I want to sort of collapse any sort of convo / blow steam out of that bit tensed convo around last page: Sorry, I stepped out of line there. You both had good points. Thanks for honest replies tho, they're kinda rarity these days and was sure nothin was coming outta dat shitpost lol.
 
speaking of which... that same kind of emotion that these wonderful utubes evoke... >:^}
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTN-ixHQ2hM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83daamakUyE
Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 03:41:30 pm by bonzi_buddy
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i cant think of anyone that wouldnt enjoy some quality tunes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4h28K6MUIY
groovy
ooh
smooth
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Quote
Do you remember the moment when you first understood that everything is made of atoms? Maybe you never really did.
 
depends on what you mean by "understand". humans are hardwired to understand only a very limited number of things. it wasn't until Newton's contributions to science that this came to be widely realized. understanding a theory about something is not the same as understanding that something. 
 
the bell curve argument you quoted seems extremely contrived and semantic imo