Topic: Happy New Salt + What's on your mind 2012: CHILL YOUR HEAD (Read 116274 times)

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in summary if KILL ALL MEN is what bothers you get the heck out.  having a woman express her frustration at the patriarchy in that way is nothing at all like actual oppression and going "WELL YOU *HAD* A POINT BUT THEN YOU SAID KILL ALL MEN SO THEREFORE I'M GONNA IGNORE EVERYTHING~" means you're a privileged brat.

I'm going to assume this was directed at me. I never said it was like oppression and I also explicitly said I wasn't ignoring everything you said because of it. I just failed to see how that did anything but hurt your argument. I don't think using the language of oppression against the oppressor is a good idea and in my opinion it just brings one to the level of the oppressor. I'm not even complaining about the misandry thing because, like you, I don't think it's valid. I just think that was a poor way to end an argument and it goes against anything I've learned about persuasive writing.

EDIT: So basically, like Warped said, I don't disagree with your principles but I question with your method.
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edit: you've been OOC lately dc
what's OOC?
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out of character, a roleplaying term

sayin some different stuff is all...
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o. you'd be surprised at how much of a nice and caring person i actually am :>
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I never doubted you're a nice fella irl, you've just been making more emotional posts than we're used to seeing from barack obama
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I mean Twitter communists.
hey are you callin' me out
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If y'all haven't read it, check this out http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/27398112147/insight-into-the-comic-book-industry
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I never doubted you're a nice fella irl, you've just been making more emotional posts than we're used to seeing from barack obama
it's more booze than anything else.
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Honestly, this is correct. But so is murder/killing/genocide jokes. Shouldn't you want to punch people who make genocide/murder jokes in the face as well? (I suppose this is outside of the issue of feminism entirely really)
With all due respect, I'm actually rather surprised you still don't get this after all the discussions you've been in.
Vellfire even partly explained it in the quote you're replying to. Genocide is awful too but it's not lopsided against women like rape is, nor is it used as a corrective tool to control women, and it's not something women live in constant fear in. It's something that specifically reminds women of rape culture, of the fact society considers them second-rate citizens, of the fact a lot of men don't really care about their rights or their private space or whether they say no.

Rape jokes are a celebration of all that by people who are completely ignorant of all of the above.

OK. Misandry isn't real. No women hate men.
It's about systematic oppression. Misogyny is deeply systematic, it's not just about individuals irrationally hating other individuals on the basis of biology, it's the framework that exists inside society that fosters misogyny that's the real problem. That's why misandry doesn't exist, because that framework exists only for the purpose of disenfranchising women, not men. Any exceptions that exist are minor and marginal.


EDIT: So basically, like Warped said, I don't disagree with your principles but I question with your method.
Whether you think it's a useful tactic or not, it's really up to women to make decisions on how they choose to fight their oppression. Sure, that doesn't mean men can't try to advise them in some way, but I'm very reluctant to do that because there's always a large discord between what I know and what they know. I'm not an expert. Maybe if you study the issue thoroughly, read a few books and get involved in the activist scene, you can do that, but otherwise I really don't see the point. With respect, not saying this as a way to sabotage your opinions, but you guys really don't know a thing about these issues. I don't know much about these issues either, and I have done a lot of reading.

It's also pretty typical, really. You'd be surprised at how easily men have something to say about feminism without really knowing much about it. Although I'm sure you have the best intentions, this is one culture biases. That's why, during the debates on women's healthcare issues in the US, something like 80% of the people talking about it on TV were men. They even held an all-male panel on the issue during a Senate hearing, even though none of those men will be affected by what they're discussing. Men are just sort of expected to know better, even if they're not experts. Sometimes we really just need to step back and let women sort out the things that affect them.
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I should point out that no one has actually made a rape joke in order to bring about the "kill all men" thing.

dada has pretty much said everything i wanted to say on the matter but i wanted to mention here that kill all men isn't a response only to rape jokes, it's a response to patriarchy in general
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With all due respect, I'm actually rather surprised you still don't get this after all the discussions you've been in.
Vellfire even partly explained it in the quote you're replying to. Genocide is awful too but it's not lopsided against women like rape is, nor is it used as a corrective tool to control women, and it's not something women live in constant fear in. It's something that specifically reminds women of rape culture, of the fact society considers them second-rate citizens, of the fact a lot of men don't really care about their rights or their private space or whether they say no.

just wanna add to this btw and say that there is no MURDER CULTURE like there is rape culture.  look at the stats re: rape convictions.  rape isn't taken seriously.  when someone is murdered we ask "why did this person kill them", when someone is raped we ask "what did you do to get raped" (if we even believe that they were raped, which is half the battle for rape victims).  rape is a crime where EVERYTHING is put upon the victim and most of the time the victim isn't believed at all, because we have a misogynist culture that supports rapists.  the reason rape isn't okay to joke about and murder isn't as sensitive is because we already have a culture that takes murder seriously.  rape is not even comparable to murder in the way it's treated by society, and that's why it can't be equated with something like murder.
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when people start going "hmm a young girl was murdered??? she was probably asking for it" every time then you can compare them
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I'm just a little surprised the mantra doesn't go kill all men, lynch all whites and bury the rich alive
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well, that's the unadbridged version...
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Just got my wisdom teeth out. still fairly sedated.
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No way dude, I have to have a shred of a wisdom tooth out in a week, killing me at the second. Out of my remaining 28 teeth, 15 need work, three need pulling. Tooth pain is the fucking worst.

Haha, ain't I pretty?
Hey hey hey
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now why would a guy i have not spoken with for years want me to go swimming with him at 10pm on a weekday...........
#lifesgratmysterie

ADDENDUM: its not that hot
and he is not that hot
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Sorry for ruining your facebook, Wayne. But it was a lot of fun.
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would you go swimming with me mellytan.........................
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would you go swimming with me mellytan.........................

anything for you comrade
but my mom might have an OBJEKTION

"who is naughty_geodude. is he a boy."
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