Topic: Happy New Salt + What's on your mind 2012: CHILL YOUR HEAD (Read 116275 times)

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I guess this is the main question--are you going to keep calling people fags?  Because if you are going to do this KNOWING that it hurts people, I would say that's a pretty awful thing to do.
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DDay, as Faust said, while the word may not mean much to you, it wounds some of us, like me and Faust and possibly Swordfish, very deeply, and I for one would appreciate it if you'd try to avoid hurting my feelings. Listen, I'm not attempting to tell you not to be yourself, but asking for respect. Being true to yourself is not incompatible with being respectful of others- there are many sides to each person. Please, I appeal to you to show your respectful side when it comes to this matter. Thanks.
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I guess this is the main question--are you going to keep calling people fags?  Because if you are going to do this KNOWING that it hurts people, I would say that's a pretty awful thing to do.

I still don't think it hurts the main group your trying to push out to me. Without getting to complex On the forum no Because I would not try to hurt Faust. If I would tell you my full resolve you would still see me as awful.
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I still don't think it hurts the main group your trying to push out to me. Without getting to complex On the forum no Because I would not try to hurt Faust. If I would tell you my full resolve you would still I was awful.

DDay I don't think you're awful.  I think what you're DOING when you say fags then try to defend it is awful.  You're not an awful guy, which is one of the biggest reasons I'm trying to ask you to stop doing something terrible.  The fact that you're a good guy doing a bad thing is pretty upsetting, and it'd be better if you did something more in line with your character.


Also, how many gay people have to tell you it's hurtful before you realize it is?
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DDay I don't think you're awful.  I think what you're DOING when you say fags then try to defend it is awful.  You're not an awful guy, which is one of the biggest reasons I'm trying to ask you to stop doing something terrible.  The fact that you're a good guy doing a bad thing is pretty upsetting, and it'd be better if you did something more in line with your character.


Also, how many gay people have to tell you it's hurtful before you realize it is?

Still don't think it is in a whole but if it offended them I will not say it on the forum. Still disagree with there line thinking  I'm going to be quite open about it as my opinion has not changed in whole. (just to clarify it's about the use of the word.)

But I will respect the wish of others.
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Still don't think it is in a whole but if it offended them I will not say it on the forum. Still disagree with there line thinking  I'm going to be quite open about it.

There's not really anything to disagree with.  They're part of groups that have been oppressed by society their whole lives.  You're just adding onto that pain for no real reason since you can easily use other words (like I said, jerk is particularly good).  You shouldn't use it outside the forum either because they people here aren't the only gay people in the world, and you don't know who is or isn't gay.  It's just a bad idea to use it in general, there is no safe or good way to use it.  Please, just use a different word, that's really not asking that much.
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There's not really anything to disagree with.  They're part of groups that have been oppressed by society their whole lives.  You're just adding onto that pain for no real reason since you can easily use other words (like I said, jerk is particularly good).  You shouldn't use it outside the forum either because they people here aren't the only gay people in the world, and you don't know who is or isn't gay.  It's just a bad idea to use it in general, there is no safe or good way to use it.  Please, just use a different word, that's really not asking that much.

I could just agree with you and end all of this but I'm tired of being that guy that say "yha yha your right" sorry but that is my resolve.
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So you're not going to stop spewing hate speech because you're afraid of being wrong?  That's horrible.
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admitting you're wrong is the first step to being right

only YOU can prevent hate speech
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I was looking for something else on my twitter and found this from earlier this morning:

"It's not an extreme opinion that if you hurt someone, especially unintentionally, that you apologize and learn/grown."
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So you're not going to stop spewing hate speech because you're afraid of being wrong?  That's horrible.

I never did any hate speech and will never do so your trying to make it out that way and it's simply not true. I simply don't want to lie to you and say your right and still use it in everyday life. So what I'm saying I don't want to lie to you or anyone.
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Vell, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink. (Frankly I was more upset at Fuckcrypt for starting it- I'd read DDay's response as actually mocking him for what he'd said.)  This is starting to turn into an unwinnable argument. Browbeating him isn't gonna help. Let's just make certain that the next time he or anyone says something  that offends us we clearly express our displeasure and continue to do so each time. The repetition should start to take effect after a while. And I'm not asking for an apology right now, you two. All I ask is that the next time you reach for a word you pause for a moment and consider its effect on those around you before proceeding. That's all. Stop and think.
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I'm not sure what discussion you're referring to, but you might be thinking of safe spaces, or at least a similar idea.  The reason that in these conversations marginalized people get to speak whereas the majority are told to stay quiet is because marginalized people don't GET to speak most of the time.  Women and homosexuals and racial minorities will often silence themselves in order to keep from drawing any ire from the majority.  That's the whole majority/minority dynamic.  The reason the privileged group (such as straight people or men or white people) need to stay quiet is to give the minority group an actual chance to say what's on their mind.  The privileged group gets to say their side of it EVERY DAY, their side is the default (hence, privilege).  I know this offends you but you need to consider the fact that minority groups don't usually get a chance to speak freely.  It's not any sort of rudeness or lack of consideration against you, it's just about giving them a chance.  The privileged group doesn't always NEED to add their input, their input is already injected by society because they're the majority.


This is pretty much what I just said, but it bears repeating--she doesn't get to give her view in everyday society.  Her view isn't represented in the media and it is isn't represented in mainstream culture.  Yours typically is.  This is why you need to LISTEN to what minority groups tell you, because you don't normally hear their side ever.  They hear your side every day.  You're exerting your privilege as the majority by insisting they are required to hear your side too.  Just try listening to them, I can't emphasize this enough.

I think you do care about what minority groups have to say, but I also think that you are too concerned about making sure the majority viewpoint is heard.  The majority viewpoint is already heard and understood.  This is all about giving the minority a chance to speak up WITHOUT having the majority viewpoint overshadow theirs like every other day of their life.  To put this a bit more harshly, it's not all about you.

Maybe I should clarify further, When I refer to people as part of a minority or majority. I kind mean individuals within that group.  When I meet someone that's better off and has more influence on the world than I do, and I have a discussion with them on a person to person (or even a small discussion group), I'll still let them speak. Because while they might be part of a powerful group that regularly speaks their mind but I don't think of them that way, I think of them as an individual. I suppose in a odd perspective that everyone is vaguely a minority in the sense that they are the only person that is... themselves. ugh I lack the graceful words to describe this but I imagine you know what I mean.

The majority and minority are both a group of individuals. They are not hiveminds where one hivemind has more strength than the other and is actively trying to bully the smaller one. They are groups of individuals. And individuals should be permitted to speak their mind, especially when they are caring enough to participate in a discussion about individuals that are marginalized.

I don't think of people as just a group. To put it in a minorly cynical way: We are not as connected as we like to think. We all live as ourselves alone and we die alone.
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holy crap this thread has become difficult to keep up with. *phew*
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I never did any hate speech and will never do so your trying to make it out that way and it's simply not true. I simply don't want to lie to you and say your right and still use it in everyday life. So what I'm saying I don't want to lie to you or anyone.

Fag is hate speech, there really is no getting around this point DDay.  There is no reason you can't quit using this word.  It's not easy, and you might slip up.  Then you just apologize and go on.  But there's no excuse to hurt people.


e: Terrorantula, the only reason I keep up with this is because I consider DDay a friend and I don't want a friend of mine saying things like this.  If it was someone else I would have given up on him by now.
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Vell, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink. (Frankly I was more upset at Fuckcrypt for starting it- I'd read DDay's response as actually mocking him for what he'd said.)  This is starting to turn into an unwinnable argument. Browbeating him isn't gonna help. Let's just make certain that the next time he or anyone says something  that offends us we clearly express our displeasure and continue to do so each time. The repetition should start to take effect after a while. And I'm not asking for an apology right now, DDay and, (i guess) fuckcrypt, but please take a second to consider how it might make those around you feel the next time you consider using it. OK? THAt'[s all I Ask.

Now Terrorantula I called myself a dirty fag so that time I did use the word as it was perceive but I act like it wasn't bad thing and said to him to kiss me hahahah.

But that one could be hateful in a way so I will apologize for that one but the way I used it for the Pittsburgh  part witch I seem to be getting more flak on is not done in a bad way.

It's not a hate speech if used right.
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It's not a hate speech if used right.

There's honestly nothing more I can say to you except that this is in no way true ever.
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DDay, I'm at the point I don't really care who said what when- just please stop and think whether it might hurt others' feelings before you say something in the future.
Vell, you know he's a good person and you want to be friends- I think your friendship is more precious than who's right or wrong and as a friend perhaps you can put up with his flaws; lord knows we all have them. I'm not saying you have to like them or forgive them, but in the end  you may have to endure them.
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There's honestly nothing more I can say to you except that this is in no way true ever.

really I'll give you one honest example. Man I  need a smoke can I have a fag. I just proved it FYI.
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