Topic: Happy New Salt + What's on your mind 2012: CHILL YOUR HEAD (Read 116275 times)

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There is a big communal aspect that comes with physical work that you don't get in customer services/office/webstore, and it does make a kinda 'bond'. While I do agree that in perfect utopia-land, it would be good for everything to be automated, we're quite far from that, and I see levelling the economic divide a more important goal at this time. Only when we've made everybody equal, merged the working and middle classes and removed the upper/upper-middle classes will we have a platform to start making such changes.



There's a difference between mental stimulation and intillectual stimulation. Watching WWE is hardely intillectual, but there is a lot to concentrate on, from the colours the noise and the movements, the constant barrage of media, then the adverts which contain all of that in 30 second doses. People have become overly reliant on constant streams of mental stimulation thanks to TV, but it's shit you don't have to think about so it's not intillectual stimulation.

Do you not think that the radical change of automated EVERYTHING could bring about an a evening-out effect? Especially when it comes to food (healthy AND otherwise), if we reach a point where it takes little to no effort to actually produce food, wouldn't that make it so cheap that even people from third world countries would be more capable of paying for it? or even getting a set amount for free since it may very well become so cheap? (assuming there is a location for them to purchase it near them)

Again though I'm being a dreamer here and thinking of the idea of automation making it so cheap that this would be possible. Which may not be possible, since automation only covers the costs of the actual labor involved. There is still the costs of land, utilities (water, electricity), maintenance, and who ever runs it is going to want a percentage.

But still, even with those costs I imagine the food's price would pretty drastically decline if such automation were to be achieved. That is a good thing.
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it takes a lot of energy to run robots.  it doesn't take a lot of energy to run migrant wage slaves.  human bodies take fuel that's pretty easy to produce and turn it in to labor.  robot bodies take a fuel that's limited and difficult to produce (electricity by way of fossil fuels) and turn it in to labor. 


there's a never ending supply of wage slaves, especially as economic conditions worsen due to the vagaries for capitalism.  if one of your wage slaves breaks down (loses his arm to a turbine while he's picking tomaters) then he's easily replaced - especially if there's a lot of demand for work, but far less demand for unskilled labor.  if one of your robots throws a servo then you have to pay a lot of money to either replace the robot or get robot inc. out to fix your robot.






our great technological achievements by way of the information revolution have made hiring wage slaves even easier.  you mentioned wanting to run a business defined entirely by algorithms - that business exists, and it's called walmart.  walmart is able to buy goods that are very, very cheap because an algorithm has figured out that by buying from X supplier in Y country assembled in Z third world hell hole you can produce the cheapest fake plastic piece of shit possible.  our technologies of simulation allow for capital to maximize their business to razor sharp margins of profit because technology means that you can run a factory in indonesia (where the workers work for pennies a day) from the comfort of your mansion in california.  you can get goods to the shelf from across the world almost instantly by this same network of computers.  walmart is cheap and effective because of their supply chain (allowed by technology), which allows them to grow large and buy at greater economies of scale, which allow them to command better prices for the goods that they buy as a wholesaler and allows them to gain greater technological edge and so on and so forth in a feedback loop.  because of this great efficiency which allows for walmart to seek out the cheapest labor, cheapest raw materials, and cheapest goods, walmart has no ties to any nation - it is a globalized nation in and of itself.  there is no reason for a factory to be in america, where labor is expensive and safety regulations are cumbersome.  because these factories no longer exist (or have their labor cost dragged down by competing with wage slaves in poorer countries) the cost of labor in america also shrinks and makes it even cheaper for businesses that don't have the competitive edge of walmart to use wage slave labor here in the u s of a. 


at the same time that technology has made labor insanely, disastrously cheap, it has also allowed for the white collar section of the economy to play the markets in ways that are beyond human comprehension.  most trading done today is high frequency trading which is done on the millisecond by intelligent agents created by quants in wall street firms who are compensated in six figure salaries.  this detachment from the reality of money has lead, most recently, to our current long recession, where real assets (homes, jobs, educations, futures) were treated like tokens in a game, and a series of short sighted moves on a computer database crashed the real economy.  regular traders, or small traders like your local 401k, are forced out of the market and people with extant advantage (the CEO of walmart, for example) are the only players left in this light speed game of poker.


the cheapening of labor also leads to more consumer debt as you are required to have greater (insanely expensive) education to get a job running the computers instead of a service sector job selling cheap plastic shit made by wage slaves in other countries.  consumer debt becomes a commodity that can be traded by the algorithmic daemons which comprise global finance.


http://www.thebaffler.com/past/of_flying_cars/ <-- that article by david graeber is a really good primer on this sort of thing


the reason that we don't have automated factories that give us infinite time to pursue our leisure is because there's no economically sensible reason for capitalists to do so.  labor is cheap, and cheap labor has the end effecting of further cheapening labor.  robots may very well lead to our post-scarcity star trek future (i also doubt this), but there's no reason for someone who already has a very comfortable stake in the current system to make this change.  i don't believe in great conspriacies (a capitalist will just as soon slit the throat of his friend for a penny as some prole on the street) but there's a huge systematic resistance to disruptive technology.  even the relatively benign and capital-friendly technology of the internet is seen as a threat to the existing system - much less something as disruptive as a system of labor which destroys the current precepts of consumer culture.


so to address your wishes for a society controlled by robots and algorithms: you have your wish.  it's just that it fucking blows and doesn't make your life any better - quite the opposite, in fact.
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hell yeah I'm like modding these compressors/limiters made in this http://www.kvraudio.com/product/reajs_by_cockos  trying this idea of a multipass comp/limiter that raises/lowers the threshold/ratio with an acceleration rate so you could level off the compression ratio in these curves and see if that works well compared to having a shitload of compressors in series. I'm just modifying the existing code but I feel more like programar than I ever did in college. Like actually solving problems relevant to me with coding
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Warped655, watch Fritz Lang's Metropolis and Charlie Chaplin's classic film, Modern Times. They were made in the 20's and 30's respectively but still manage to spell out a great deal of what's wrong with an automated work force.

With machines running everything, there's no employment, the poorer will get poorer, while the rich will get richer now they don't have to pay wages, and will simply widen the gap between the two. The gap needs to be removed before we can begin to think about making those kinda drastic changes imo.
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metropolis is a godmovie

the anime is not as good but that rock holmes kid is in it. osamu tezuka's cool-coiffed satan. good anime character


**errrr holmes. rock holmes. not howard heh thats quite another anime character...

****satan? or should i say judas...
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Warped655, watch Fritz Lang's Metropolis and Charlie Chaplin's classic film, Modern Times. They were made in the 20's and 30's respectively but still manage to spell out a great deal of what's wrong with an automated work force.

With machines running everything, there's no employment, the poorer will get poorer, while the rich will get richer now they don't have to pay wages, and will simply widen the gap between the two. The gap needs to be removed before we can begin to think about making those kinda drastic changes imo.

yeah and I'm just gonna have to AHEM COUGH *VONNEGUT* again
 
 
also tristero that is a damn good post
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
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There is no wave-particle duality

Everything is a wave.
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I facebook quoted parts of that post if you don't mind. Thats a really good layman's layout of what we've been talking about. I really like that post.

I gotta hardon for that post.
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
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I'm helping head up a NaGaDeMO team, leaving for a trip in a day, and just found my free weekly pass to Broke Straight Boys from the Pride festival. Pity I lost the towel I got from their star Blake Bennett in return for my tip, 'cause I copped a feel when tipping.
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You guys say wage slaves are cheaper and thus a better work force, but I'm reading things that say otherwise.
http://kdpaine.blogs.com/themeasurementstandard/2012/03/warehouse-wage-slaves-vs-the-robots.html
The video also brings up that the robots are faster and more efficient than human workers. Sure its not widespread in its use yet, but amazon/walgreens/other places mentioned is a pretty big step.

But yeah, I know what you guys mean about robots taking over. In that by having the robots taking over as the economy is set up now would just put almost everyone with out a college degree out of jobs and make them desolate. This article also seems to agree with that sentiment: http://articles.latimes.com/2003/oct/15/opinion/oe-brain15 and suggests we change the way our economy works.

Its pretty much what I would want from this world. Everyone gets a set amount of money that they can survive healthily on, and any extra work in more intellectual pursuits would get them extra money if they so desire. Since the robots are doing all the mundane shit.
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Quote
The video also brings up that the robots are faster and more efficient than human workers.

in some instances they are ie: assembly line work but generally its much much cheaper to hire a starving poor person. It really depends on the type of work they're being used for. Like the example he used of "picking tomaters" its a mindless job of repetition in an area where right now it would be pretty hard to put a robot. You gotta think about the pursuit of the technology, manufacturing it, and maintaining it all of those go into the cost analysis.

Quote
Its pretty much what I would want from this world. Everyone gets a set amount of money that they can survive healthily on, and any extra work in more intellectual pursuits would get them extra money if they so desire. Since the robots are doing all the mundane shit.

imo this wouldn't work well. It curbs personal ambition. Definitely state funded things like health care, transportation, and education but just giving people money to do with as they see fit causes problems.
DEUCE: MEETING THE URINE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND REALIZING IT'S JUST LIKE ME AND MY PREJUDICES  THIS WHOLE TIME WERE COMPLETELY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PTTTTHTHTHH GOD IT'S EVERYWHERE<br />DEUCE: FUCK THIS TASTES LIKE PISS<br />PANTS: WHERE IT SHOULD TASTE LIKE COTTON CANDY OR PICKLES<br />DEUCE: OR AT LEAST LIKE URINE NOT PISS
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I'm gonna root for Germany from here on.
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you... you monster...
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Going to a wedding rehearsal in a few hours. Best friend from high school is getting married.
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I'm gonna root for Germany from here on.

"Here’s a remarkable stat about Mario Gomez* - he’s only been in possession of the ball for 22 seconds in the tournament so far. He’s scored three times."

*goalmez


well im not actually sure how genuinely phenomenal that stat is but he's def man of the tournament so far (sorry sheva you a great but i dont think you and thymoshuk can carry ukraine to the finals on your poor old back)



you... you monster...



EDIT lmao just saw this:



they see me rollin.....they hatin.......
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well im not actually sure how genuinely phenomenal that stat is but he's def man of the tournament so far
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 ??? ??? ??? ? Marty Baureis? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???
 :)
EDIT:  Ugh, Chinese characters don't show up on here nvm.
N? h?o. W?de y?ngwén míngzì shì Marty Baureis. W?de zh?ngwén míngzì xi?oh?. W? xué zh?ngwén zài dàxué. B?yuè shì w?de èr gè nián. W? juéde zh?ngwén bù nán. Su?rán zh?ngwén y?u hànzì, d?n shì h?n róngyì. Xièxiè, xièxiè. Zàijiàn!


ugh tones don't show up either.

Also, to those that talked about going to China...I'm jealous! I'm gonna go in the future but next summer I'm going to Sicily for my school's archaeological field school then maybe the summer after that hit up China, if I have the money.  If not I could always use student loans because it's for school and I'd get credits.
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??? ??? ??? ? Marty Baureis? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???
 :)​ 

 :-X
 
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you were saying
I used to be a computer god 15years ago. Since then i'm just a working dad.

~my gameslog~
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