Topic: How do you feel now that Obamacare was ruled constitutional? (Read 9955 times)

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No they're not, all Dada is doing is spouting inane leftist slogans like "inequality, inequality, the workers should decide" which I will address later

Hardly. Perhaps I was being reductive in calling you a moron, but what you are saying here is flabbergasting.

I listed Tesla as an example of someone NOT BEING AN EQUAL TO YOU, read it again. Also: are racists your equals? You've experienced cognitive dissonance just by reading that phrase.
Nope, I merely questioned whether Gates and Buffet, typical EVIL CAPITALIST PIGZ, who "contribute to society" through voluntary actions are more or less valuable to the society than a leftist leader, who produces nothing basically and uses other people's time and effort to (supposedly) accomplish goals (poorly) through coercion but has a heart touching discourse.
With the end goal of...? Oh yeah, using them as examples to push the idea that unregulated capitalism is a positive thing for humanity and society.

Also, I think you are mixing up the different definitions of inequality in different contexts. Dada is clearly talking about inequality when it comes to financial freedom. Not ability, intellect, ethics, or understanding or pretty much anything else. We aren't talking in blanket definitions of inequality either.

I'm a determinist, so I don't really believe in evil. More on the point, I don't think Dada is suggesting we need some absolute leftist leader to implement financial security for all. Merely that we should strive to accomplish such in the most ethical manner. If you are talking about any and all leftist leaders in general, I think you might be too paranoid to function.

You know what would be even funnier? If someone tried to make Tesla and every other outlier more equal, i.e: putting them in a factory with other equals, putting him through egualitarian education that made him more equal to his peers. We'd still be living in caves so I'm not sure if factories would even exist.
Again, different definitions of inequality due to context. This is irrelevant and not want anyone here wants. (I hope...)


No, I didn't, actually I pointed out that leftist leaders enjoy carefree lifestyles compatible with being rich without earning any of it so I guess being evil is not exclusive to those evil capitalists
Being evil an asshole or psychopath certainly isn't exclusive to capitalists. Again, I really don't think anyone here thinks that, nor thinks that all capitalists are evil. (except perhaps Barrack/DietCoke)
Why would I mention that when it wasn't even part of my point to begin with?

Also it's dumb as hell to write this kind of "OH I DIDN'T SAY THAT I ACTUALLY MEANT THIS" post, so don't make me
All your points are either paranoid, crazy, dumb, or misanthropic.

The only reasonable thing I've seen you post is "People aren't ants" and that hardly says much at all.
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this dude seems like that guy who got banned like a month ago
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this dude seems like that guy who got banned like a month ago
I did an IP check and nothing came up. If Inri (had to actually ask WHAT WAS HIS NAME AGAIN on IRC because I had thankfully already forgotten) wants to ban evade and rejoin under a new name, then congratulations, he's officially so pathetic he'll go through a nonzero amount of trouble to ban evade a forum with like 10 active posters.
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Yeah, I don't think he is Inri. But he has acted as if he's been here before. Libby-tardo What is your true form name?
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I'm a determinist, so I don't really believe in evil. More on the point, I don't think Dada is suggesting we need some absolute leftist leader to implement financial security for all. Merely that we should strive to accomplish such in the most ethical manner. If you are talking about any and all leftist leaders in general, I think you might be too paranoid to function.
This is unfortunately a common trope when capitalists discuss socialism. Namely, they see the concepts of socialism and totalitarianism as inseparably linked (possibly unintentionally, because most of them probably don't understand a thing about this) because when they think of socialism, they think of the Soviet Union under Stalin. Of course, once you start doing some basic research, you immediately throw away that concept because it's nonsensical.

Being evil an asshole or psychopath certainly isn't exclusive to capitalists. Again, I really don't think anyone here thinks that, nor thinks that all capitalists are evil. (except perhaps Barrack/DietCoke)All your points are either paranoid, crazy, dumb, or misanthropic.
It's not about people in the first place, but about the system. Capitalism is a guaranteed route to sharp inequality. By extension, it's also responsible for a lot of other evils, such as colonialism and imperialism. Racism is strongly exacerbated through class warfare and politics.

Anyone who consciously and, fully knowing these things, would argue that it's not just an ugly truth, but an ideal to uphold, is pretty close to any definition of evil I can come up with. Just like someone who would claim that Naziism is an ideal to uphold. Most people really just don't know a thing about any of this and certainly don't consciously agree with it, of course. Personally I prefer to think that not people, but their actions, are evil, and that people's values can be simply described by whether or not they support things like freedom of choice, equality, inherent rights, et cetera. Some people are undoubtedly evil, but if that's where the analysis ends, it's not good enough.

But ultimately, the people are dispensable. If an apologist for elite policy decisions, like US foreign interventionism, dies in a car accident, you can get another guy to take his place no problem. There will always be stooges willing to sell out humanity. Those will never be in short supply, so I don't worry about that too much. It's about the system.
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Some people are undoubtedly evil, but if that's where the analysis ends, it's not good enough.
At the risk of derailing the topic for a moment: Determinism asks "Who's fault is it that these evil people exist? Are they at fault for their own 'evil' selves?". My mental dictionary asks what the real difference between "Evil" and "assholes and psychopaths" exactly is.
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At the risk of derailing the topic for a moment: Determinism asks "Who's fault is it that these evil people exist? Are they at fault for their own 'evil' selves?". My mental dictionary asks what the real difference between "Evil" and "assholes and psychopaths" exactly is.
Who cares. The fact is they're there, they're not going away, and we have to deal with them.

edit: one thing. They're certainly not evil out of necessity.
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Well, I hate no one. I only pity, and hate their actions and results. I'd kill an 'evil' person if I thought that I'd help the world in some major way and that it was the only way to deal with them. But I wouldn't 'punish' or hate them. Punishment for 'justice' is purposeless (other than ill-deserved self satisfaction) and cruel and is in fact nothing more than revenge, not justice at all.

My point that I'm trying to illustrate: Evil is often tossed around as a justification of killing someone even when they are effectively 'de-fanged' and no longer a threat to society. I don't like the term for this reason. (AKA, clearly not a fan of capital punishment)
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i think we ought to abandon the left. just attack power everywhere.

hit the gym and the shooting range y'all, get yr swoll arms nice and steady
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the left is just as much of an enemy, they just don't have power right now
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gtl (gym tan liberalism)
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BGI - BICEPS AND GUNS INSURRECTION
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Are you a bad enough dude to attack everyone with power?
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libtard is dom

edit that hardcore orange dial still holding up for you??

edit
Quote from: dada
Personally I prefer to think that not people, but their actions, are evil, and that people's values can be simply described by whether or not they support things like freedom of choice, equality, inherent rights, et cetera. Some people are undoubtedly evil, but if that's where the analysis ends, it's not good enough.
the 'democrat' of understanding people...don't stop here. relativism comes next.
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the left is just as much of an enemy, they just don't have power right now
What do you mean by left though, "the left" or the left?
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libtard is dom

edit that hardcore orange dial still holding up for you??
Really? I thought dom was on IRC calling for revolution during the British riots last year?

the 'democrat' of understanding people...don't stop here. relativism comes next.
It's more of a "don't just say evil, explain why" thing.
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People will be forced to buy health insurance and health insurance companies will be forced to sell their product to anyone who wants it.


I heard healthcare is pretty expensive in US compared to other developed countries, so, how does that help lower the costs? Won't that cause healthcare costs to rise because there will be an increase in demand but not an increase in the supply of medical services? Maybe everyone is entitled to their health thingies but all that does is change the order in which people have access to it.
You sound like someone fresh out of Economics 101 and brimming with rage at the government and all those union fatcats for tampering with the free market and wages.

The Sraffians dismantled the whole concept of demand and supply forces determining relative prices in the long run in the capital debates of the 60s, but for some reason the right-wing marginalist economists basically ignored all that inconvenient stuff and pushed their theory which is why when you open up an economics textbook the first thing you will see is demand and supply curves drawn up as if they are scientific laws of gravity.
why do i keep coming back here
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The Sraffians dismantled the whole concept of demand and supply forces determining relative prices in the long run in the capital debates of the 60s, but for some reason the right-wing marginalist economists basically ignored all that inconvenient stuff and pushed their theory which is why when you open up an economics textbook the first thing you will see is demand and supply curves drawn up as if they are scientific laws of gravity.
I've read very little about economics, can you recommend me a good book to get started? I'm particularly interested in something that will help me understand the type of transactions that carry a systemic risk, and that can explain why there was such an absurdly large housing market bubble and why nobody appeared to have noticed it (I guess some people did, and maybe the rest of the market decided to just brace for the deluge?)

Actually I also have Marx's Capital around here somewhere, maybe I should read that one first.
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I've read very little about economics, can you recommend me a good book to get started? I'm particularly interested in something that will help me understand the type of transactions that carry a systemic risk, and that can explain why there was such an absurdly large housing market bubble and why nobody appeared to have noticed it (I guess some people did, and maybe the rest of the market decided to just brace for the deluge?)

I'd recommend Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy by Joseph Stiglitz it covers quite a bit of what got us into our current mess and is a pretty interesting read. His latest book The Price of Inequality: How Today's Divided Society Endangers Our Future is also a decent look at some of what we (Americans anyways) are going to be facing in the future.
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libtard is dom

that explains a lot, he's always been an enormous fucking moron.