Topic: Canadian Police Kill Polish Immigrant with Taser (Read 913 times)

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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/world/americas/16canada.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin


Basically, a 40-year old Polish immigrant arrived in Canada to live with his mother, start a new life, etc. He couldn't speak any English. He became very frustrated when his immigration processing had taken 10 hours, and he never got the chance to see his mother who was picking him up at the airport (she left, thinking he hadn't caught the plane on time). He started yelling in Polish for someone to help him, broke a computer, and threw a chair. The Mounties came, tasered him twice and killed him. He offered no resistance.

Being a Polish immigrant myself, I guess I am a little BIASED, but no matter what nationality, this is really frightening!
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Yes, I was going to post it but assumed it had already been posted (why?). I saw the video on the news today. It was shown at the request of the mother and was pretty fucked up. It's pretty important to note that he did not speak any English, so had no idea why he was being held for so long or any instructions given to him. The police were told this and they continued to yell at him in English for about 5 seconds before tazering the shit out of him and tackling him. When he was on the ground with two guys on him they tazered him a second time.
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It's actually a pretty common occurrence now, ASE. Tasers aren't "non-lethal" as everyone thinks, and the police have now been trained to use a taser even if little or no resistance is offered. My personal opinion is that it is operant conditioning to ease in the use of deadly force as a common way to deal with the people.
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I think police are a bit too taser-happy, thinking it is a safe way to subdue someone immediately. Obviously this was unnecessary, and I certainly hope an investigation is launched.

That being said, I was stuck in an airport once for 12 hours and didn't do anything but wait patiently the whole time. Admittedly, I could understand what the airport and airline staff were telling me about the delays, but they were completely wrong anyways (it'll just be another half an hour, another fifteen minutes, et cetera). I don't understand why this guy's reaction was to start knocking shit over and what have you. I'm sure it's described much more violently than it actually was, but it was still a pretty bad reaction. He was obviously disoriented and there is no way that it called for a tasering (never mind a lethal tasering) and I have to feel bad for the guy, but the simple fact is that an airport is the worst place you can freak out (especially coupled with any foreign language) these days. Even a mild showing of hostility can get you removed from an airport altogether, or make you subject to searches.

I really don't understand why they had to taser him twice (or even once). It was a really godawful reaction by the police to a bad reaction by some confused guy, and it sucks. It kind of makes you miss the good old days when the cops had nightsticks and would just give you a beating if they decided to overreact instead of sending however many volts of electricity running through you.
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I think police are a bit too taser-happy, thinking it is a safe way to subdue someone immediately. Obviously this was unnecessary, and I certainly hope an investigation is launched.

That being said, I was stuck in an airport once for 12 hours and didn't do anything but wait patiently the whole time. Admittedly, I could understand what the airport and airline staff were telling me about the delays, but they were completely wrong anyways (it'll just be another half an hour, another fifteen minutes, et cetera). I don't understand why this guy's reaction was to start knocking shit over and what have you. I'm sure it's described much more violently than it actually was, but it was still a pretty bad reaction. He was obviously disoriented and there is no way that it called for a tasering (never mind a lethal tasering) and I have to feel bad for the guy, but the simple fact is that an airport is the worst place you can freak out (especially coupled with any foreign language) these days. Even a mild showing of hostility can get you removed from an airport altogether, or make you subject to searches.

I really don't understand why they had to taser him twice (or even once). It was a really godawful reaction by the police to a bad reaction by some confused guy, and it sucks. It kind of makes you miss the good old days when the cops had nightsticks and would just give you a beating if they decided to overreact instead of sending however many volts of electricity running through you.

Well from the video he was throwing a few things around after he was placed in a 'secure' area. But I can only imagine what it would've been like. He was on planes for hours before hand and then to be held at the airport for half a day with no understanding of what was happening or why.
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Even if a taser is an effective weapon with which to subdue people, the things are obviously completely unsafe. Plenty of people (245, according to Amnesty International) have died already as a result of being tasered, and who knows how many more people have been injured or hurt because of them? Some people have even been tasered to death while in custody or while they were already completely restrained by several policemen. There have even been accounts of children and old people being tasered, which apparently the police force doesn't consider a problem.

It's yet another weapon that the police can abuse. You know that any weapon will at some point be abused, especially when given to a force that's virtually incapable of being punished for their actions.

Call me paranoid, but considering that investigations into police taser abuse are usually performed by the same station from which the abuse originated, I wouldn't be surprised that most of these are simply feign operations used to justify the chief constable's opinion on the case.
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in the video he is obviously on the ground incapacitated and they shock him again, in my opinion the officer should be charged with murder; it was clearly beyond the force they needed to subdue him.   

I have always been against the tasers though, at first it seemed only people real high on coke would die but then i thought about it and using drugs isnt really a good reason to kill someone. They're obviously not non lethal....just not always lethal.
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Here's the video for anyone who hasn't seen it.

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It's fucking ridiculous. The cops come up to him with bulletproof vests, he throws his hands up in the air and gets tasered. He rolls on the ground in what is obviously horrific pain for a good 30-60seconds, then gets tasered again for no reason. Finally, if you continue watching after the 2nd taser, a different cop comes up and starts beating him with his baton! During this whole time, everyone can be heard saying "He speaks Russian" or "We need a Russian translator." Not only does everyone make a random assumption about what language he's speaking, but no one actually does anything to help the language barrier.

P.S. For those of you curious, he's pretty much just swearing in Polish, saying things like "Fuck" and "Fuck, I (indecipherable) accuse you (indecipherable) and all of you." and "Good, Good."
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During this whole time, everyone can be heard saying "He speaks Russian" or "We need a Russian translator." Not only does everyone make a random assumption about what language he's speaking, but no one actually does anything to help the language barrier.
I don't disagree with you about how bad this was, but this statement is pretty ridiculous. What do you expect these people to do? They're just bystanders. Most people can't tell the difference between RUSSIAN AND GERMAN let alone a pretty obscure language like POLISH (it may not seem that obscure but uh... I am pretty sure most people don't realise how many polskis are around here). They were in an airport for a short amount of time (that this part was taking place). Do you think maybe they should've hired some sort of translator online and got him to come down and decipher what he was saying while he was freaking out? It doesn't matter what the bystanders were saying; they couldn't do anything. It's completely unfair to blame them in any way.
Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 07:49:53 am by Myke
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You misunderstood me: I wasn't accusing the bystanders of having a duty to do anything. I was accusing the police officers of not carrying out what they could be heard saying on the video: Finding a translator.

I guess I phrased it kind of awkwardly, but mostly that first sentence was me being surprised that just because ONE person decided HEY THAT SOUNDS LIKE RUSSIAN, that everyone jumped on the bandwagon (including the cops) and said YEAH HE DEFINITELY SPEAKS RUSSIAN, LETS GET SOMEONE RUSSIAN TO HELP.... oh wait.... nm.. *TASE*

Edit: I'm also fairly certain that police organizations in LARGE cities like Vancouver are supposed to have connections to all the necessary resources for any given situation. I mean, I don't expect small city in the middle of nowhere to have a translator on call, but this is one of the largest cities in Canada we're talking about. Plus, Polish-speaking people aren't exactly RARE in Canada from what I've heard (lol Bart)
Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 07:57:17 am by ASE
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hey where the fuck are all the people that routinely come into topics like this and say ITS ONLY A TASER, TASERS DON'T KILL; THAT ANNOYING ASSHOLE DESERVED IT ANYWAY, I WOULD HAVE TASER'D HIM 6 TIMES MORE


also ase i have had it up to here with your polish nationalism
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After about thirty seconds of that video, I decided I didn't want to watch some guy get murdered so I stopped it.

Russian and Polish don't really sound that much alike, to me. I don't speak either, but I could probably tell the difference between the two. I assume the guy had SOME knowledge of English (like, really basic, it's hard not to these days) and someone could have made calming gestures while using really simple words at him instead of killing him.

Vancouver is an extremely multicultural city and it would have taken them five minutes to find a translator. He had just gotten OFF a plane, so he obviously didn't have a gun or anything, so they could have just stood there pointing their tasers at him instead of shooting him twice.

It's possible that the second tasering was by accident or something, but it was still unnecessary to do it even once.

Oh, and konix raises a good point about what dickheads people who work at airports usually are. I know they work long-ass shifts with annoying people coming in all day, but they still come off as complete jerks. My entire family is very courteous and friendly, and generally speaking everyone but the people who work directly for airlines (like airport security, customs, et cetera) are assholes to us regardless. I can only imagine how bad it would be for some guy who has just waited 20 hours and doesn't speak English.

It's really sad that some confused guy died for no reason on his way to trying to make a better life. I hope they spark a big investigation (or redouble the efforts of any previous investigation) into taser usage so that at least some good can come out of this.
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I guess he was just shocked to be in Canada.

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Even if they had got a Russian translator he most likely would be able to communicate with them because judging by his age and the Polish education system back in his youth students learned Russian anyway. And even if not the translator would be able to find out that no, he doesn't speak Russian they might know that Polish is the language they should communicate in.

Bringing the police in was uncalled for. I'm sure the airport had Polish speaking employees. (They must have a LOT airlines counter). They really should have tried the communication approach instead of using force. At that point he wasn't harming anyone. Sure, he was causing physical damage to the airport, but he likely was extremely tired, hadn't slept and eaten for 10 hours and was confused and bewildered. Getting an electric shock under these conditions is fatal. He must have gone arrthymic and died of cardiac arrest.

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Uncalled for police brutality yet again... its happened to Arab and Iranian students in the States and now to a Polish immigrant..

Any charges going to be filed against these cops?
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Also, there were two people who video taped this (not sure who's footage that video's is).  One guy who video taped this with a good camera willinging offered his camera as evidence, on condition that the camera and footage was returned in 1 week.  RCMP have refused to return the footage and now that man is suing the RCMP for that footage.  He may have been successfull and that is why we are seeing the footage on youtube (?).


Very shady dealings going on with the RCMP here, in any case.  Taser a guy, twice, he dies, they grab footage, and do not return footage as required.


EDIT:
footage article:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071026/taser_video_071030/20071030?hub=TopStories

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I assume the guy had SOME knowledge of English
In Eastern European countries languages like German and French far surpass English as the most important second language. English really isn't that widespread once you get into the heart of Europe. It's like assuming an American is capable of understanding some basic French/German/Spanish, all of which are more widespread than English in central-Europe. I'm not even sure if some of the countries even has English in the school.

But even here in Norway there are people incapable of speaking a single word of English, and we have an old tradition of learning English in the school (since Great Britain has been our closest trade-ally for centuries). Seriously though, English is pretty useless outside of the West and Africa and the former British colonies... Like not useless but as useful as German is to the average American.
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When I first read this topic, I was too pissed off to make a reasonable post. I came back to see if there were any updates, and I started watching the video only to realize that I didn't want to watch this poor man get murdered by the fucking cops.

I am so mad right now. I follow the Mexican-American immigration issue very closely because of my proximity to the border, and it's really upsetting to see that the system is so fucked up in other places as well.

Can I just say that I FUCKING HATE THE POLICE FUCK THE POLICE FUCK THE POLICE I HATE THE POLICE FUCK THE POLICE. 
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Yeah, Lars is right. Teaching English in schools started around the fall of communism in eastern European countries(10-15 years ago) and the level of these teachings is really low/bad. I'm from one of those countries and I didn't get any English classes during elementary school and even in high school they only covered the basics. (as you can see)

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic. I agree with everyone and I'm surprised something like this would happen in Canada.
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If you're watching the video, pay attention about 20 seconds in when he has the folding table and he's standing in the doorway. He's breathing really heavily and he just looks like he's about to start crying.

All he did was break some fucking STUFF. I know that STUFF is important to a lot of people, especially authorities, but FUCK.

Also, I just watched a video where some RCMP big-wig was saying "well, it's only one point of view blah blah blah."

Another little factoid: before the video went public, the RCMP stated that the Polish guy fought with the officers. FUCK THAT. That is such a huge fucking lie and whoever was responsible for it should AT LEAST lose their job, although jail would be a more appropriate punishment for such a blatant fucking abuse of the public trust. SOMEBODY FUCKING DIED YOU DONT LIE ABOUT SHIT LIKE THAT. I am so mad.

Also Also, In the video that ASE posted, you can hear the following exchange VERBATIM as the officers are arriving:

Officer #1: "May I taser him?"

Officer #2: "Yes"

HE WASN'T EVEN DOING ANYTHING WHEN THEY GOT THERE.
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