Rant Free Tibet (Read 1146 times)

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China seems to have many problems. One of these problems is Tibet. The People's Liberation Army, in China, invaded the Tibetan region of Chamdo in 1950 and crushed all the resistance from the Tibetan army. Under PLA pressure, the Tibetan officials signed an agreement declaring China's sovereignty over Tibet. The provinces of Xikang and Qinghai in the Chinese administrative hierarchy, were outside the administration of the Tibetan government in Lhasa. This resulted in a resistance, which was supported by the CIA, that eventually spread to Tibet's capital, Lhasa. It was, however, stopped by 1959. The events cause the Dalai Lama, as well as other government officials to flee the country to India and the Dalai Lama to declare a Government-in-Exile. To this day, the People's Republic of China still continues to portray their sovereignty over Tibet. Other governments continue to make protests against their rule because of reports of human rights violations, but all still recognize the PRC as the rightful government and not the Government-in-Exile in India. The Spanish high court has announced that they will investigate reports of seven Chinese officials who allegedly participated in a genocide in Tibet. The Chinese government has also stripped a completely religious nation of their beliefs. It is considered a crime to have a picture of the Dalai Lama in your possession or posted anywhere in Tibet. They do not allow the practice of Buddhism anywhere in the country.

The Tibetan Government-in-exile, which includes the 14th Dalai Lama, believes the following:
Quote from: 'The Dalai Lama
During the Vth Dalai Lama's time [1617-1682]' date=' I think it was quite evident that we were a separate sovereign nation with no problems. The VIth Dalai Lama [1683-1706'] was spiritually pre-eminent, but politically, he was weak and disinterested. He could not follow the Vth Dalai Lama's path. This was a great failure. So, then the Chinese influence increased. During this time, the Tibetans showed quite a deal of respect to the Chinese. But even during these times, the Tibetans never regarded Tibet as a part of China. All the documents were very clear that China, Mongolia and Tibet were all separate countries. Because the Chinese emperor was powerful and influential, the small nations accepted the Chinese power or influence. You cannot use the previous invasion as evidence that Tibet belongs to China. In the Tibetan mind, regardless of who was in power, whether it was the Manchus, the Mongols or the Chinese, the east of Tibet was simply referred to as China. In the Tibetan mind, India and China were treated the same; two separate countries.
It has been determined by the International Commission of Jurists that Tibet, during the years 1913-50, demonstrated the conditions of statehood that are generally accepted under international law.
The Tibetan Government believe that the PRC only want Tibet because of it's natural resources and strategic value, and views the rule as colonial and illegitimate. That said, the Dalai Lama has also recently stated that he only wishes for autonomy and not complete separation from China, under certain conditions such as freedom of speech and belief. Many members of the Government-in-Exile do believe the opposite though, that Tibet should be its own country apart from China.

The Government of China has many different views on many different subjects:
Historical Status: The PRC, who have had control over China since 1949, and the Republic of China, who ruled China prior to 1949, maintains the position that Tibet has been a region of China since the Yuan Dynasty seven hundred years ago.
Unique Ethnicity: The current government of China states that every Chinese government has recognized that Tibet has it's own culture and language, but this does not necessarily allow for an independent state.
De facto Independence:  While the ROC government had no effective control over Tibet between 1912 to 1951, it does not constitute Tibet being a completely independent state as many Chinese states were not controlled during periods of warlordism in China.
Foreign Interventions: The PRC considers all proindependence movements aimed at ending Chinese sovereignty in Tibet, including British attempts to establish control in the late 19th century and early 20th century, the CIA's backing of Tibetan insurgents during the 1950s and 1960s, and the Government of Tibet in Exile today, as one long campaign abetted by malicious Western imperialism aimed at destroying Chinese integrity and sovereignty, thereby weakening China's position in the world.
Human Rights: PRC says that the successive Dalai Lama, while controlling Tibet, violated many human rights because the country was essentially a serfdom and people in the country reported seeing slaves. However, the 1959, 1961, and 1961 UN Resolutions condemned the human rights violations that the Chinese had caused in Tibet.
Self-Determination: The earliest ROC all regarded Tibet as a part of China, but Chinese government officials have also acknowledged the principle of self-determination.
Legality:The PRC also points to what it claims are the autocratic, oppressive and theocratic policies of the government of Tibet before 1959, its toleration of existence of serfdom and slaves, its renunciation of Arunachal Pradesh which China regards as a part of Tibet occupied by India, and its association with India and other foreign countries, and as such claims the Government of Tibet in Exile has no legitimacy to govern Tibet and no credibility or justification in criticizing PRC's policies.

As for third-party opinions, no country in the world, including India,  recognizes Tibet as an independent state, nor do they acknowledge the Government-in-Exile despite obvious precedents for these actions to be taken. On the other hand, the Montevideo Convention established the following four criteria for statehood in international law: (a) a permanent population, (b) a defined territory, (c) a government, and (d) capability of entering into relations with other states. Tibet meets all four of these criteria, which means it is allowed to be it's own nation.

Basically, the point of this topic is to hear your opinions on this matter. Do you support China or Tibet? What are any possible solutions to the problem?
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I remember being young in the 90s and hearing a lot about FREE TIBET, but not so much these days. This seems to be an issue that many people can agree on, but that nobody is ever willing to do anything about.

I think the most compelling argument for Tibetan sovereignty is the human rights abuses which IIRC, are fairly well documented in the region.
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Tibet's natural resources? The country's resources are mostly unexploited, and it's not likely a major reason for control. Strategic importance? Maybe, but it's one big mountain and there's not much going on up there. More than likely, it is part of the PRC because it is such a huge geographical body; it's no Canada or Russia, but the area of ethnic Tibet is probably equal to the size of France. China looks a lot smaller without Tibet and Chinese Mongolia; it's no wonder they want to hold on to those areas despite them being primarily devoid of... anything.

I support Tibetan semi-autonomy, perhaps being acknowledged as a "semi-autonomous republic" in the Soviet sense; stronger internal governance and religious freedom for the entire area of Tibet as well as proportional representation in other federal governing bodies and ethnic representation in international bodies in exchange for acknowledgement of federal power in Beijing. I think allowing more regional freedom, especially religious freedom for Buddhists, would be a huge PR boost for the Chinese government and a real step to people accepting them as a more progressive state. Really, what do they gain by oppressing Tibet? Only the animosity of the world. They could give them limited freedom and autonomy, which would realistically keep power in Beijing but show the Tibetans they were not considered "conquered" citizens but part of the greater People's Republic.
Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 06:16:57 am by Kaempfer
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well maybe just maybe the PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY freed Tibet from an oppressive theocracy and the rule of the tyranous buguise.

I mean seriosly they are spreading the revolution man. come on when are we going to realise that its time to move past the opiate of the people and into a proletariat utopia man.
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jesus fucking crhist

not this again, i read something in the campus newspaper and i wanted to fucking hit that columnist in the face (with my dick)

fuck the dalia lama and all his lobbysts, all of them are scum. there are many problems with the chinese communist government, but they are far more democratic and way better than the feudal landlords and theocrats that live in exile right now.

if you think the buddhist "utopia" were a bunch of happy guys hanging around in the temple, think again.

the buddhist utopia was a feudalistic hellhole where the landlords did as they pleased with their serfs. slavery was legal, and because execution was "unbuddhist", they did other fun things, like gouging the eyes of "criminals" and living them to die in the middle of nowhere (hey after all, they wouldnt directly kill him!)

today the tibetians have electricity and running water. heh sure TOTALITARIAN CHINESE GOVERMENT, but i am almost certain most of the people who care that much about tibetian autonomy are either ex feudal lords, the dalai lama, and uptight american liberals who cry everytime they hear the word "communist".

again, i am not saying the chinese communist party is the best thing ever, but they are a trillion times better than the dalai lama.
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read and learn

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
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I am not going to deny that because it is true. It's not the fact that the Chinese have taken over Tibet that disturbs me really, it's the fact that the Chinese have violated so many basic human rights. They have taken Tibet's culture away from them, they have prevented an entire nation from practicing their religion. As well, they have tortured and starved prisoners in their prisons. I would just be happy with giving the Tibetans their culture back, and not complete freedom from the Chinese.
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And so my solution remains perfectly viable and maintains a balance between cultural freedom and the rule of law!
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Yeah I would have to agree with you there. Though I doubt it will be implemented anytime in the near feature. As I stated above, no country is willing to do anything about the situation, and I doubt they will soon. It doesn't make sense for anyone to damage trading relations like that.

So now I ask how would we manage to put this plan into action?
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I remember being young in the 90s and hearing a lot about FREE TIBET, but not so much these days. This seems to be an issue that many people can agree on, but that nobody is ever willing to do anything about.
because it is too far away, and people are to comfortable in their current positions, as in, people are fat and lazy, even fuckin liberals.  New Orleans was even in the same country as US citizens, but all they did was bitch saying "OH LORDY LORDY, SOME ONE SAVE THE BIG EASY!"  when they could just travel like, a DAY, and get there and help rebuilding (I fucking did it for 6 months).
bahamut?