maybe i'm not the best guy to bring this up, but no-one else has.

i don't like the way hilary clinton is getting treated in all of this. it seems to me that a lot of people are just focusing on attacking her personally and the amount of times i see words like bitch, cunt and other gross sexist insults get thrown at her makes me think a lot of it is to do with her being a woman. she gets a lot of flack for not being likable or relatable, or whatever, but really she isn't any worse than many of the other male candidates have been. she's not anywhere near as charasmatic as obama is, but she isn't some cold fish up on the stage.

i don't think i'm stepping out of line saying that a lot of the stuff that is said about her, and there is a lot of it in this topic, comes from a cowardly hatred for an older woman who is trying to make a serious attempt at taking power.

here's a funny thing to back up what you are saying; everyone, EVERYONE, in the media said she won because she cried.

and in fact quite a few voters said they voted for her because of how the press was treating her, namely Chris Matthews and his completely horrible attitude.

Hillary Clinton is a bad candidate. she's vacillated on positions in the past and leaned to the right, her experience platform is based almost entirely on the fact we know the name CLINTON, and she was the first candidate to resort to mudslinging. none of that makes her a bitch or a cunt or any other wonderful sexist term.

it's sort of a reverse bandwagon; instead of saying HEH OBAMARAMA RULES you say HILLARY CLINTON MORE LIKE SHITLERY KKKLINTON. it's not just on GW but on other political forums as well.

honestly between Obama and Clinton there are very few reasons to vote for Clinton seeing as how they have the same platform and she's so unlikeable, but the misogyny on the forums is a little much.

maybe i'm not the best guy to bring this up, but no-one else has.

i don't like the way hilary clinton is getting treated in all of this. it seems to me that a lot of people are just focusing on attacking her personally and the amount of times i see words like bitch, cunt and other gross sexist insults get thrown at her makes me think a lot of it is to do with her being a woman. she gets a lot of flack for not being likable or relatable, or whatever, but really she isn't any worse than many of the other male candidates have been. she's not anywhere near as charasmatic as obama is, but she isn't some cold fish up on the stage.

i don't think i'm stepping out of line saying that a lot of the stuff that is said about her, and there is a lot of it in this topic, comes from a cowardly hatred for an older woman who is trying to make a serious attempt at taking power.

yeah, we talked about this in my feminism class. I tried to stay out of it because I know my TA's and professor are all HILLARY CRAZY but the discussion is fairly interesting. Just the fact that Clinton is the only candidate whose physical appearance is actually analyzed on TV, whereas none of us give a damn that John McCain wore a red tie. And yeah, like you said, when Hillary Clinton shows passion/aggressiveness about a topic she is called a "bitch" whereas a male candidate in the same position is just "strong" or "adamant."

You kind of wonder what the news reaction would be if Obama was caught crying during a dinner party. The professor's argument would be that a male candidate would be simply "caught up in the moment" or "passionate" or "emotional" about something. Hillary Clinton, of course, gets a totally different reaction (not necessarily from the media, who wouldn't dare saying that she's a  "pussy.")

your post

yeah i should maybe clarify don't like clinton very much as a candidate i'm just annoyed at the way she gets treated because she's a woman, and surprised how it isn't being addressed (anywhere that i've seen)
 

I think they use the sexist insults because calling her DICKFACE doesn't really work so well.  I really don't think it has anything to do with her being a woman, it has to do with her being a really really fucking smug woman with a bad attitude.  Ugh, the kind of smugness that radiates from her has nothing to do with being a woman, it has to do with that being her personality.  I'm perfectly willing to just call her an asshole from now on if it enforces the fact that her being a woman isn't the issue.

i think a lot of the time a common kind of man can really over react to any perception of smugness because she's a woman. i'm not saying the smugness isn't there (although i guess i don't really see it), but i think when some closet misogynist picks up a whiff of smugness in a female he gets really really cheesed off.

the other guys made most of the points i should've/would've.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZTo0iGc_Dw&feature=related

I am not voting for Obama.

you're fucking kidding right?

one guy doesn't know them offhand, so therefore there are none I guess.

also here's a shocker for everyone reading; very few bills proposed or sponsored by individual congressmen ever get through. VERY VERY VERY VERY FEW. maybe something around the realm of 5%.

Hillary Clinton, who has been around for twice as long, sponsored 100 bills, 6 of which became law. Obama has sponsored 63, 3 of which became law. you can do the same with McCain or anyone running right now.

goddammit don't you have basic government classes in high school.

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AGREED OUATEDEPHOQUE,

Obama Has Zero Chance In The General Election Once Hillary Supporters Start Following McCain To Avoid The Obama Disaster, Which Is Like Electing A Well Spoken, Black George Bush!

lol. I am fucking kidding. No, we don't have basic government classes in high school. Will that calm your irrational, knee-jerk rage?
Obama is all style and no substance. Throw the word "change" around, talk about vague "plans to save America", the guy still has no qualifications. I don't support Clinton, but that is my take on it. Feel free to unleash the Obama-supporting fire unto me.

lemme guess your voting for dr. ron paul????

you're pretty dumb!

Illinois State legis from 1996, US Congress in 2004 (where he won by the largest electoral victory in the state's history). that's, what, 12 years? Roberson what's your cutoff? did you know Hillary Clinton has only held a political office for eight years? why would you say he's all style and no substance considering he's apparently been in political office longer than the next contender? McCain's the only one with a real experience vote, seeing as how he's been around since, what, 1982?

as far as his plans: http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/ pretty well outlined here and elsewhere.

why would you come into this thread thinking you could post a youtube the Hillary Clinton people have been sending around, linked from once again TNR, and then say HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW BARACK OBAMA NEVER DOES ANYTHING? do you think everyone in this thread is that dense?

funny how five pages ago I was the anti-barack guy lol.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZTo0iGc_Dw&feature=related

I am not voting for Obama.

I love how people can choose their candidate by watching a short video now instead of doing research.
Dude, read the topic. You can't even back up your claims as to why he isn't qualified when he clearly is.

yeah I can't stand when people call her a bitch either. regardless of how you mean it, if you're a guy it does make you look pretty bad imo

i think a lot of the time a common kind of man can really over react to any perception of smugness because she's a woman. i'm not saying the smugness isn't there (although i guess i don't really see it), but i think when some closet misogynist picks up a whiff of smugness in a female he gets really really cheesed off.

this is really true. some people would probably be triggered simply by her being confident, or seeming like she's in control. sexism actually does have a lot to do with this, but it's not gonna make me vote for her and I do think she comes off as being a little smug

dada: oh, to be sure. she definitely isn't HELPLESS in a debate and she did pull a couple good moves in last night's, especially at the end there. I'd still call it a victory for Obama though, all her attempts at defacing him went down the drain and she even got booed for it at one point. Obama himself did a really good job though, and imo I think it was safe to say he can out-talk her

And yes, automatically interpret me posting the video as my ONLY reason for not supporting Obama. Maybe I should've wasted time explaining "This is a funny video" and "I do not support Obama" as separate ideas, but I didn't feel like it. Christ, you'd think if that video was my sole reason for not voting for Obama, I'd say "AND THIS is why I am not voting for Obama"...

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous trying-to-get-out-of-deep-shit reasoning I have ever heard.

You can't come in to a topic about the presidential race, post ONE YOUTUBE VIDEO and the words "I am not voting for Obama" and NOTHING ELSE and expect people to ASSUME that you have more to say. Laziness is a horrible excuse. If you're too lazy to state your own opinions and instead rely on "*youtube video* THIS THIS x3" then you should not be posting in forums. At all.

you post a video and say I'M NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA, as if somehow the two were separate

*posts propoganda about jews* I really dislike jews.

whoa guys I was KIDDING here, and honest HERE.

ps Roberson why didn't you address the fact that Obama has four years of experience over Hillary Clinton and that his positions are well outlined? why did you post a propaganda video and then say several untrue criticisms the opposing party and candidate have been trying to use as propaganda and then get mad when you were accused of maybe swallowing propaganda?

did you think no one would notice that I did refute your argument in the post you quoted?

yeah i should maybe clarify don't like clinton very much as a candidate i'm just annoyed at the way she gets treated because she's a woman, and surprised how it isn't being addressed (anywhere that i've seen)
 
i think a lot of the time a common kind of man can really over react to any perception of smugness because she's a woman. i'm not saying the smugness isn't there (although i guess i don't really see it), but i think when some closet misogynist picks up a whiff of smugness in a female he gets really really cheesed off.

the other guys made most of the points i should've/would've.

...but what about when you're female?  You based that whole argument on how men react to her smugness.  By the way, I felt exactly the same towards George Bush's dumb SMIRK AT YOU face as I do to Hilary's HEH SMUG face.  She just comes off as really arrogant, especially during things like that video of the debates.

...but what about when you're female?  You based that whole argument on how men react to her smugness.  By the way, I felt exactly the same towards George Bush's dumb SMIRK AT YOU face as I do to Hilary's HEH SMUG face.  She just comes off as really arrogant, especially during things like that video of the debates.

yeah i know that's why i said i wasn't claiming that she couldn't be called smug. maybe some people find her that way regardless of gender, but i was making the point that there's a horrible kind of man who would interpret confidence or assertiveness as smugness, and that if they detected even a little bit of smugness, they would let their anger at the sheer audacity of it take over them.

when in comparison they might find bush's stupid grin totally acceptable (it annoys the fuck out of me too)

I am leaning towards McCain. Because he has much more experience, he's not going to cut taxes like crazy like other Republicans want to do, he is against universal health care, he is in favor of environmental protection, he does not want to pull out of Iraq early, and he doesn't let religion influence him greatly like most Republicans. And that is my stance. 

I'll ignore the rest even though it's still bullshit, and address this

Because he has much more experience

the question is what that experience entails. were this the 2000 election, I wouldn't say anything here, but since 2000, McCain's strong principles and experience has not mattered for much. he vacillated early in this election, and began to pander to the Christian right when before he hadn't. that and experience isn't something magical that means you're better. by this logic, because I've been around GW for a long time, I can pull so much more rank than you. as in, my posts, regardless of content, are more valid, not on the base of the argument, but solely on my join date. experience only matters when someone is lacking any experience. once you've put time in, you are experienced, and the level doesn't matter too much. it just means you might know how to manipulate better.

he's not going to cut taxes like crazy like other Republicans want to do

he has been against repealing the infamous Estate tax, and voted in 2006 to extend the largely ineffective Bush tax cuts.

he is against universal health care

there were several pages of discussion on this, and it's clear already you haven't even read the last two pages (no one expects anyone to read 26 pages, but honestly) considering how we beat this to death. regardless, let's grant him this, although I would never say it was a positive.

he is in favor of environmental protection

this is indeed a good reason to vote McCain. it is also a good reason to vote Obama or Clinton as well.

he does not want to pull out of Iraq early

McCain doesn't just NOT WANT TO PULL OUT EARLY; he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years. he is on record as saying this. if you want a slow withdrawal of troops, a timeline, anything that indicates leaving Iraq EVER, you would not vote for McCain.

he doesn't let religion influence him greatly like most Republicans

he's in favor of DADT, a policy that not only puts a great deal of psychological stress on our very courageous soldiers already in stress situations (imagine if you were in a war zone and if you got spotted with a boner because some hot chicks were taking a shower in front of you) but also dishonorably discharges anyone who is suspected of being gay, he attempted to pass legislation in Arizona to make same sex marriage illegal, he wants to include intelligent design in public education, and he changed his position on Roe vs. Wade in recent years in an attempt to pander to the religious right.

that's a lot of social policies influenced by religion!