Seems to me that the same kind of mentality that says it's time to "take care of" a nation is present in the people I overhear in public places saying "we shoulda just nuked the whole goddamn place... woulda solved all our problems" and in the people who believe that ignorance, bigotry, and racism are the best ways of "taking care of" groups of people with dissenting beliefs.

Hm.  I didn't realize that connotation.  Unfortunately, I did grow in kind of a rednecky-area (but I wasn't one of the intolerant bastards -- although I'm sure I've led many of you to believe that I am), so maybe that's an issue with my "wording."  I don't think force is a great thing to use -- and people shouldn't be indiscriminately killed.  There were some Mormon guys I knew who said that about Iraq and the middle east.  Just turn it into a giant glass desert.  That really...  disgusted me.  I didn't talk to them anymore after that kind of crap.  I punched one of them in the face when they were telling a gay friend that all gay people should be flown to an island, and the island should be nuked.  I suppose that's a bit intolerant of me there towards them, but they were definitely ignorant and sick.

I guess I just would rather "liberate" a place, and only do such in a way that saves the people and doesn't put them into danger.  I think some of our efforts in Iraq have been pretty shitty, considering we're taking out civilians.  Iraq may not have been a prime place to take out -- but North Korea's issues really bother me.  Just seeing the way people (and reading about it too) react makes me wonder if they're brainwashed to believe that or if they're truly in belief of that.  War is a terrible way to solve these things.  Ideally, we'd be able to send supplies to North Korea or something to help out their hospitals, or treat their ill, and hopefully maybe their leader would do something to help out his people a little more.  Iraq had Hussein as a dictator, or at least, that's how we've seen him portrayed.  But it seems like a lot of the people at least didn't WANT him around and that we were in the very least doing some bit of service to a good portion of the people.  Liberating those who are in a situation that they're doing the best they can, but are incapable of achieving any "power" to revolt with, seems like a good place to intervene.  I guess my best analogy would be that your neighbor has a dog.  Your neighbor beats the shit out of the dog, who is mostly well behaved.  Do you just walk by and say nothing, or do you do something about it?  I don't think we have a right to "take care" of a nation.  I worry that nuclear power in the arms of people who don't like us could put us in danger, but at the same time, we have nukes too -- and it's not exactly fair that we bully them to NOT have them.

And Steel,

A lot of the stuff that the media portrayed and that I read at the time, said that a lot of stem cells would be coming from aborted fetuses.  In Vitro might be ok, at least.  But the points of basically almost saying, "Oh, you're going to kill that potential baby?  That's cool, we can use it for something else."  It's almost kind of encouraged.  It's good the fetus didn't go to waste, but it felt like a lot of people would follow that as a "morally acceptable" thing to do.  I'm not sure where I stand on the abortion issue -- if a woman is raped, she should have the choice to get rid of the baby, as contradicting as I suppose that seems.  But say someone like a white middle-class girl, who's just sleazy as hell, goes and gets knocked up -- I think she shouldn't be given the choice to abort.  She was stupid and reckless.  In a probably bad comparison, I think the raped victim would be someone who was stuck in the car of a drunken driver, and the drunken driver and the passenger both get their licenses suspended.  If the "victim" or passenger was there by chance and kind of against their will (say it was like an abusive boyfriend or something that forced her in), she shouldn't suffer the penalties, while the jackass driving the car should.  But I guess if it was just being destroyed anyway, that'd be ok.  Still kind of not a happy subject.  But now, we can kind of avoid the entire "is it morally acceptable to pull stem cells from a dead baby" discussion because of the new research which makes things totally easier to debate.  Or at least, hopefully it will, assuming some idiot doesn't decide to suddenly debate that using stem cells is going to screw up the laws of nature and piss off God.

I guess in the end maybe I've led a lot of you to think I don't care or respect for Human life.  But I do.  I think it's important to try to reach out to a lot of different places if we can and do what's right for people.  I don't think we have the right to say "This is right" and "This is wrong."  But when something is just so OBVIOUSLY wrong you feel like you should do something -- I think it's important that we take that step.  If someone starts blabbing on about Ku Klux Klan being the best thing in the world and spreading some propaganda shit, causing issues with other races/sexual-orientated-peoples, etc, I think we have a RIGHT to step in and resist those assholes.  Everyone has an equal right to freedom and should be given such.  I don't condone people complaining about a situation.  Tolerance is important -- I guess that's where I get a little hot-headed.  I can understand a lot of people's reservations towards issues.  But I don't know -- tolerance seems to be like the magic thing that I feel a lot of people are missing.  (I suppose that's a little hard to believe from me after that other post towards Steel -- I am sorry about that, Steel)

--Terin

Terin I stopped reading the entirety of your posts about two years ago, (TLDR hu hu) but you are pretty much the dumbest person that has ever posted on gw, I am including VideogamerXX45 TRUTH CIRCA 04 and maybe even a little bit of kk4.

At least with kk4 you could say "Yeah while he's a disgusting human being and all, I guess I can see how listening to Alex Jones all day and being a former neo-nazi, you'd have idiotic opinions like that".

However, with you Terin I just DON'T FUCKING GET YOU DAWG. You are the most misinformed person I've ever seen, you buy into the libertarian meme of "OUR INFRASTRUCTURE CAN'T HANDLE uhc (((((which people have refuted countless times in this thread fffs i can't believe how dumb you are)))))" And you think it would be "cool" and a "change of pace" to have a libertarian, hell an anarchist, hell a communist president. BIG CHANGE SOUNDS GOOD TO ME... WE NEED REAL CHANGE... FOR AMERICA HEH....

Not that I'm against change but I am not all YEAH SHAKE SHIT UP YO. I'm pretty sure you don't even know what communism, socialism, and Anarchism are, in fact judging from what I've read of you I bet you'd hate communism pal! (For all the wrong reasons.) Also your I'M A MINORITY I'M FUCKING KOREAN shit is hilarious as hell dawg. While it's pretty funny to hear you with the whole ME TOO GUYS I'M OPRESSED shit (why the fuck would you be proud of racists treating you like shit?????????), but asians aren't discriminated against nearly as much as Blacks/Latinos/Gays/Jews etc. Don't be such a condescending prick to Panda about being a minority when I guarantee someone hasn't said to you "You're not really asian, come on, you're too ELOQUENT."

I'm not even going to get into the whole stem cell thing dawg, because even as probably one of GW's most ardent pro lifers, I've NEVER been against stem cell research because guess what? IF YOU ARE YOU'RE FUCKING RETARDED.

Also I am going to agree with panda about the whole "heh.... more personal attacks against me and doctor paul.... looks like you can't refute us with these ridiculous attacks...". Guess what tex? I am now coming to understand where steel was coming from when he said "SORRY IF YOU HAVE UTTERLY REPREHENSIBLE OPINIONS ON THINGS YOU DESERVE TO BE TOLD YOU'RE A WORTHLESS HUMAN BEING." Like, I can't even express in words without borrowing panda's brain the kind of uh... i don't think disgust is the right word, maybe I just feel like I want to shake you like I am a English nanny and you are a small little baby. Wake the fuck up, step away from counter-strike for ten minutes and actually do some research about the world around you before you start up with this whole SWEAT OF MY BROW Ayn Rand bullshit.

smoke weedz everyday

My - way to keep the discussion civil.  Someone disagrees and you insult and shout them down.  If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it is "free."  The quality will go way down, and the availability will drop like a rock.  Many of the issues we have with healthcare are due to the government's involvement in the system.  It doesn't need to get any more involved, thanks.  If we aren't satisfied with the care received what opportunity would there be for us to go elsewhere?  Essentially what you are saying is that you don't care if it isn't available or quality - just as long as it is "free."  During times of tight budgets, it could be decided that your health care won't be covered on a whim and you would have no place to go and just have to suffer or die with no options.  I do not want my body to belong to Big Brother.  No thank you.  And "waiting" that you refer is to going from needing a diagnostic exam and getting it scheduled in a day or so or waiting months or even a year at a time - I'm sorry, but "less expensive" isn't exactly worth it if the test is needed to check for an ailment.

But if the polls are any indication at this time, you may just get your wish to have government controlled health care (or the flowery term "universal health care" as some like to call it to make it sound nice), so here's some of what we have to look forward to:

Are you seriously comparing a minority of cases against 40 millions uninsured people? A guy with a broken leg has to wait 5 hours but some guy with a fuckload of cancer in his belly can't go at all because he's poor? Last time I checked a life time of no health care is a whole lot longer than 5 hours.

And what the fuck. "I'm afraid of what it'll do to our taxes.." shut up and pay your damn taxes. Sweden got pretty much the highest taxes in the world but I would never trade lower taxes with UHC even though I'm 90% sure me and my family could cover any sort of health expenses (ok maybe not but a whole lot). You know why? Because I fucking care about those less fortunate, I might not give away a whole lot of cash but I'll never bitch about tax that goes towards saving the lives of the less fortunate.

does anyone have any +1 empathy rings for sale?????

And what the fuck. "I'm afraid of what it'll do to our taxes.." shut up and pay your damn taxes.

Sweden got pretty much the highest taxes in the world but I would never trade lower taxes with UHC even though I'm 90% sure me and my family could cover any sort of health expenses (ok maybe not but a whole lot).

You know why? Because I fucking care about those less fortunate, I might not give away a whole lot of cash but I'll never bitch about tax that goes towards saving the lives of the less fortunate. QUOTED GATDAMN FOR THE MOTHERFRACKI*G  TRUTH

Man i'm glad that someone said this. You don't see North-Europeans speak for their system too often in these forums!

And Terin... pal. I'm going to be frank and honest now: You have said some of the worst stuff i have seen for quite some time here in the forums - i mean it. Your arguements just don't make sense at all. It's amazing how much stupid, uninformative, idiotic shit you say despite the quality of your text. Hell, if you thought and read about these things you would know that anarchy serves NOBODY AT ALL. (ummm i don't know about you but i gues you are not very rich so uhh why do you even support libertarianism?? (((heh so you want change huh why don't you vote obama and go chuck yourself...((also what the fuck are you trying to say with your last post.))))
Oh well, i guess common sense and verbal skills aren't really that correlative as i thought!

I'm not sure whether you know this but... social security pays back. You don't have that much rich folk but on the other hand you have less poor people. The gap between these two are actively being narrowed. OH SHIT MY MONEY but hey guess what unlike what your fellow marxist believes the country gets richer BECAUSE of this in the long run, as the population slowly grows into middle-class or w/e.

man i'd really like to write more about this (i'm not exactly satisfied about how this post came out!) but i'm pretty sick right now and my head just can't do this right now. idk if it's such a problem can't you guys have uhc as a standard and more expensive "richfolk" insurance-rolled hc as an alternative?? i wouldn't think the uhc would detoriate as a result at all!

So many people hate Bush and think he's done a poor job.    Why not try something else?  We've tried liberal and conservative.  Let's try something new.

Terin has committed to the most common and worst idea Ron Paul supporters constantly have:  "WELL NOTHING HAS WORKED SO FAR AND RON PAUL IS DIFFERENT THEREFORE HE IS BETTER (AMERICA IS JUST AFRAID OF CHANGE)"

Guess what--different isn't better!

That is like saying "Liberal and conservative didn't work, let's try NAZISM!"
"Liberal and conservative didn't work, let's try SLAVERY AGAIN!"
"Liberal and conservative didn't work, let's try NO GOVERNMENT!"

"BUT IT'S DIFFERENT, YOU'RE AFRAID OF CHANGE"

Terin basically you are voting for a horrible racist who didn't vote to keep integration in schools and there is absolutely no way to make this okay.  Fuck, this guy could shit gold to save our economy and he could still not be a good option ever because he doesn't understand the basics of WE ARE ALL EQUAL IN AMERICA (which wasn't strong enough to begin with). 

I think it's important to try to reach out to a lot of different places if we can and do what's right for people.

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,’ I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal"

How can you consider that right for the people ever.

Terin people aren't flaming you.  It sounds like it, yes, but we aren't.  We are trying to show you that you are supporting a terrible fucking racist and somehow trying to make him sound like that part of him doesn't matter in ways none of us can possibly understand.  Race does play a role in who you vote for when it means NOT voting for a man that would see your children taken out of normal schools and put into their own, probably shittier school like we already figured out it didn't work.  He'd be setting us back DECADES man.  Realize that.

edit:  asgohohw

guess I just would rather "liberate" a place, and only do such in a way that saves the people and doesn't put them into danger.

I was trying to go back and read through more of your posts but I read this and couldn't read any more.  If stuff like this was possible, they could liberate themselves.  The problem is that there is no way to run in and save the people without them being in danger because it's people CAUSING the danger.  You overthrow a dictator, you anger the citizens who for whatever reason liked the dictator.  How do you save just the ones who aren't going to hurt each other, and how do you keep them away from the ones who will?  There is no country in which there is a horrible dictator and every other person in the country besides that dictator is standing around waiting for the dictator to die.  Optimism is okay, but all of your opinions are absolutely idealistic with no reality in them at all.  It sounds almost good, but you have to be realistic about the things you're talking about.

I'd like to tell you Terin fought the good fight, showed enough spirit in him that the Sisters left him alone. I'd like to tell you that. But that kind of ending is for storybooks and movies.

Not for Shawshank.

Not sure that I ever implied I was Asian.  I said I was a minority.  I could go into that, but I'm going to back off.

Now, I thought I posted this here, but I did pull back some of my statements about Ron Paul.  And I think a lot of you miss the point that if someone who's a president gets into office and manages to say some of this racist/nazi bullshit, they're not going to get away with it.  But comparing him to a nazi, I suppose I understand the resentment towards him a little more.  I grew up around racism, so I'm either a little apathetic when someone says something (words are words -- I heard it all the time), but if I see them do something I get pissed off and try to step in to stop it.

Now, a lot of you say I'm stupid and stuff and don't know what the political parties are, etc.  You do realize America has a national communist party.  I'm pretty sure they had an anarchist party (although that doesn't make much sense, since anarchy is "no government" and all).  Yes, I do realize the difference between each party.  Let's not quiz me on political science 101.  But I honestly don't think that a president is going to be able to do much as far as political movement is concerned.  And in the end, they're more like a figure-head anyway, since most of the power is in checks and balances between the congress, senate and the executive, and hell, the supreme court could shoot down a bill as unconstitutional if someone bothered to take it that far.

In a president, we'd need decent character.  You guys had me trying to defend myself so much I kind of lost sight of that, but I'll drop that.  Ron Paul doesn't sound like the type of person to have that, although I had only managed to look at the decent propaganda for him.  And after chewing on my lip a little and thinking about it, I think I remember Hilary actually having some of the best character.  Not that I like her.  I will have to do more research into a candidate.

And as far as UHC goes, I've read the documents (finally).  They only speculated at cost and failed to address the doctors who are already around.  If I recall correctly, all doctors have to intern under other doctors -- so even if we brought new doctors in and subsidized their education as an incentive, what happens if the only doctors that were left were poor ones?  Mind you, it's speculation.  Everything is at this point.  But the fact that we're doing very little for the actual doctors who already have finished school doesn't help them out much.  Being a doctor is a well-paid profession -- no doubt.  But I saw estimates at a 30% decrease in a paycheck.  Now, I'm just talking doctor's here.  If a doctor was at $100k/year, that'd drop to $70k under that though.  It could be more, it could be less.  But I think most people would be pretty pissed to see that chunk of change missing.

And about the "liberating" role, I agree.  It is idealist.  I'm not here to spout out that "This is what we have to do."  But it feels like sometimes we should.  But yes, it's not realistic.  But does it feel like it's the right thing to do under idealism?  A little.  People in America are so politically correct now.  It bothers me that you can't walk into a place and say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukkah" (forgive the spelling if it's wrong) because you might "offend" someone.  Or that you see someone spanking their kid, and someone decides to call in child protective services because the parent is now "beating" their child.

--Terin

I'd just like to point out that healthy people who lead long lives cost the health care system MORE than smokers and obese people.


UHC has it's pros and cons, but the pro of everyone having access to health care is one damn big pro.  And don't look to Canada for the UHC answer - even though our % GDP spending on healthcare is 2/3rds of the US's staggering 16.5% of GDP, we have several difficulties.  Probably because of our low population density (Canada has about 33 million people spread out over a country larger than the US) AND the "brain drain".  Being right next to the US hurts, because the US doctors are so highly paid.  It's not uncommon for canadian-trained doctors from going to the US to practice for 5-10 years and then come back to live in Canada after making $$.

lol can't believe i found this in fyad

50% of Americans believe in Guardian angels. (link)
45% of Americans believe in ghosts. (link)
44% of Americans believe that the world is less than 10,000 years old. (link)
41% of Americans believe that Atlantis once existed. (link)
34% of Americans believe that UFOs of alien origins regularly visit Earth. (link)
24% of Americans believe in witches. (link)
19% of Americans believe that George Bush is doing a good job: http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/

i haven't read all the posts but:

And just FYI, it was amusing to find that I got about 5 IMs from people today who sent me an IM saying "Dude, Ryan and Steel are pretty left-wing, you should really watch about posting that stuff there.  But yeah, they're totally crazy and from low-income, low-class families in areas where they don't have any conservatives.  They act childish."

Terin you're a huge faggot. i'm from LYNCHBURG VIRGINIA, home of fucking JERRY FALWELL.

i.. i guess i'm just low class scum from liberalsville california

I apologized for that already, Ryan.  But if you want to keep it going, that's your choice.

Anyway, I researched Ron Paul a little more.  I'm not saying he's fantastic, but maybe this will explain some of his comments, etc.

For what it's worth...

Why Ron Paul shot down integration:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul188.html

Apparently, he didn't make the racist comments in those newsletters, but someone else did.  That's an easy cop-out, so I don't know:
http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=41822

And finally, why he kind of bashed Lincoln:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=66449

Now mind you, they're probably more credible to him and from sources that support him.  But I was reading some other things about some of his supporters/employees have been black and didn't see any racism.  I think the first link I posted (his official response to shooting down that integration bill) kind of explains really where he's coming from.  But yeah, I think there are still issues with his problems with homosexuals, and I think someone said something about him having a "right from God to beat his wife?"  Or something?  Does anyone have a specific link to that?  I'm kind of curious.

--Terin

or how about instead of copping out so incredibly hard you stand by the fact that you're one of the worst members to ever grace a political topic and you're also incredibly insulting and just generally misinformed?

also yeah i'd love to know who your "homeboys" are (i am a low income, low class person so naturally i am a minority) who were IMing you. a little backbone would be nice!

No, Bush rejected embryonic stem cell research because he didn't want all of the world's major diseasis (sp?) to be cured. AIDS and cancer and   MS and FCA (fried chicken affinity) are all God's way of punishing gay people and blacks for thinking they can mess with God's will ("And the Lord made Adam out of the dust of the ground and he was white and procreated with women in order to pass on the image of God to more generations, not because it was a pleasurable act, and it was good." Genesis 1:19).

They more than make up for this by being more capable to work for their society.

actually, most people retire around 65-70 so basically after that they're pretty much just leeches on society. so really the issue that we have is that the longer they live after retirement the more they fuck us in the ass. For instance, what economic contribution do senior citizens provide outside of propping up your local Cracker Barrel or Ponderosa? Or their unwavering support of the cottage industry of nursing homes and the pharmeceuticals? (oh and ruining social security for us) not a whole lot. and they drive slow. and they smell!

so there

The point of the study was the debunk the myth that getting people skinny and/or stop smoking won't actually reduce the overall healthcare costs.

We should be motivating people to quit for the right reasons (health) and not the wrong false ones (mo' monies).