Frank Miller is a talentless hack whose comics sell because they are "edgy". By edgy I mean a childish OTT fixation on violence and prostitutes, with no conscideration to plot, and more focus on prostitutes. His The Dark Knight Returns is something of a mystery because it is such a bad and randomly written comic that it has to be on purpose (I am aware it's something of satire on the ridiculousness of comics, just imo it gets too far up it's own ass to really bring that statement home). Somehow the sequel is EVEN WORSE (from what I've read, Miller deliberately made it the worst comic series ever written to prove that the critics just blindly lapped him up regardless of his work's quality. I kinda agree with that because of the distinct lack of prostitutes in it, but then I'm aware that he is a bad writer so he could just be making excuses). Batman Year one was pretty bad, what with Catwoman being a hooker and all. Sin City kinda started ok, but then it quickly reveals to be the same thing over and over again. ALLSTAR Batman and Robin is SIN CITY. Seriously Batman isn't Batman, every cop is a crooked, murdering pedo and Batman talks to himself like he's in some cheesy 80's film noire clone.
I have not read Ronin or 300 but conscidering how his comics are MEN FIGHTING ROAR and all the female characters are whores (seriously that got old after Batman year one! yet he's still doing it) (and conscidering how 300 is amoung the worst movies ever made imho), I really don't think I need to bother reading them.
It sucks that after the british comic revolution bringing forth so many great english comic writers into the mainstream, he's always the one people remember, and is now getting HOLLYWOOD attention. Uhg.

Did I mention that he really likes prostitutes? because you know, he really really likes them.


Sorry, I am a bit too much of a comic fanboy.

And I am not a fan of comics where the plot is MUSCLE MAN KILL WHORES.

I never read The Dark Knight Returns (I stay far far away from the Big Three: Image, DC, and Marvel) but besides Sin City which started out good and progressively became average, Miller has proved to be a competent writer who knows a thing or two about layout, pacing, and delivering good action. 

I personally would like to recommend Ronin which is his first work.  The art is rough but it was one of the first American comic books to avidly take after the manga style of storytelling (I.E. a general focus on the characters and the interaction with their environments with lots of silent panels) and while Ronin won't win any awards for MOST ORIGINAL STORY EVER, it was pretty cutting edge back in 1984 and rivaled Moore's V for Vendetta in terms of popularity and importance in the evolution of comic books.  It was also one of DC's first forays into graphic novels where instead of publishing 20 something page serials they published thick 60+ page paperbacks and that was kind of rare back in the early 80s.

Also, Ronin had no prostitutes.  The main female lead was actually one of the strongest characters in the series (and she was black; a strong black female lead was COMPLETELY UNHEARD OF in the early 80s of comic books).

300 was okay.  It wasn't a literary piece of genius or something amazing, it was just an oddly sized action comic that covered a popular topic in history.  The movie actually turned it into somewhat of a fantasy as the comic book was somewhat accurate in terms of storytelling and design.  Leonidus' wife never cheated on him and she was only shown for all of three panels.  The rest of the story was naked guys (yes, they were mostly naked) stabbing each other with spears.  I think it was an experiment in storytelling as it also had a very "manga" flare with its direction and layout.

Hard Boiled is one of his more controversial works but it's also my favorite.  The story came about in anger over the reception given to comic books as mindless things of violence so Miller set out to create the most violent comic book in the market... and he succeeded.  Every panel is intricately drawn (I forget the artist but he's probably the coolest comic book artist on the market: seriously, check out hard boiled) and they feature hundreds of people dying, having sex in the open, or getting blown up in some horrible way.  The story is about submission to higher powers and how willing humans are to give up their freedoms to return to a life of mediocrity but for the most part it's about blood and violence and more blood and sex.

Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot is my second favorite work from him and he did a good job creating a sort of American Astro Boy.  I don't have many words to say about it other than it was also a witty little satire on super heroes and their hidden agendas as well as how Americans are quick to teach their children to believe in falsities (like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny) only to have them grow up and realize that everything they loved as a child was fake. 

Other than that, I know Miller wrote the screenplay for the decent RoboCop 2 and the TERRIBLE RoboCop 3 and he's also writing the screenplay for the upcoming The Spirit movie based off Will Eisner's iconic comic strip character.  I never particularly enjoyed his movies because they're carbon copies of the comic books, but he does show some competency in the writing department and I look forward to The Spirit. 

Other than that, anything he wrote for DC is a mystery to me.  I hear his work on Daredevil was good but meh.  I don't read that stuff.

everyone seems to think All-Star Batman is tongue in cheek but honestly has he written anything NOT like that?

it would make sense if he had a single work that wasn't DUDES FIGHTING VIOLENTLY.

Also Marcus. Robocop 2 was beyond comprehension in it's suckyness. Like how we're meant to feel sorry for the kid who got killed... even though he is a major asshole and has NO REDEEMING CHARACTER TRAITS. How the bad guy is essentially the old BIGGER STTRONGER KILLING MACHINE with no purpose other than to KILL. Robocop 2 is a disaster on every level, the designs are just ahghg (Seriously no police force would ever OK a design based on DEATH ON LEGS... ignoring the fact that he needs illegal drugs to work.) At least the first film had a suspension of disbelief, and had an actual plot/meaning to the story other than "Let's kill off all the characters we just introduced five minutes ago so we can lead to EPIC FINAL BATTLE". The first film gave us character, Robocop had emotions and he had become human at the end (mentally not physically). The second film removed the character progression, and replaced emotions with GUNS.

Since when has that ever been decent?

Since when has that ever been decent?

Since action movies where, you know, action movies.

In all honesty, the last time I saw RoboCop 2 was when I was in kindergarten so I'm just talking out my ass here.

FREEZE CREEP!

I admit that I run in strange circles, but I tend to hear a lot more about Alan Moore and Warren Ellis than Frank Miller. And lately, that girl who got a job because she told everyone how stupid they were about writing women. Was it Gail Simone?

it is Gail Simone, and yeah, Agent X. she got banned on SA for refusing to follow the rules, and Warren Ellis left after the nerds scared him away.

but yeah it's also your circles! people outside of comics know Miller more than anyone else (barring Stan Lee).

Mmm... Frank Miller.

The only work of his I appreciate is Batman: Year One. Too bad Paul Pope's Batman: Year 100 shits all over it.

yah very few non-comic fans have even heard of Alan Moore (they might know movies based on his works... but mostly they have no clue they're even based on comics!), whilst everyone is on about "Frank Miller is so awesome, I saw 300 and then rushed out to buy the comic... it was SO GOOD!"

Especially since Alan Moore doesn't even want his name in the credits of movies based on his comics, he's sort of a shadowy mystery to people who don't know anything about comics.

I don't have much of an opinion on Frank Miller. All I've read is The Dark Knight Returns and like five or six pages of Sin City. His art style (at least in Batman) annoyed me in a lot of places but in other places it had some really cool effect. Since I haven't read much by him I can only say that I thought TDKR was decent, but again if I'd read more and I'd seen firsthand that everything he does is the same I'd probably have a very different opinion.

I loved the Sin City movie and Frank Miller co-directed that as well as the obvious, so that was sort of interesting. 300 was a great movie too, but solely because it accomplished what it set out to: be a general asskicking action film without much else to it. Like Crank...man I loved Crank.

Didn't Frank Miller also take over the Daredevil comic for a while? I'm pretty sure he also came up with Elektra.

yah. she's one of his creations.

*waits for Psyburn to come into thread*


I don't really like or dislike Frank Miller.


He's...whatever.

I think peoples opinion of Frank Miller's work is of inverse porportion to how much of his stuff they've actually read... I mean, if you just read Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Daredevil and maybe one or two Sin City books, then you'd say "Wow, these are great comics that silmultaneously lampoon and glorify the brutal, violent nature of comic books"... But if you went on to read the rest of his stuff, like 300 or whatever, then you'd say "Uh, no, guess I was wrong about the whole subtly subversive subtext thing. This dude just really, REALLY likes people killing each other in gory ways. Also, whores".

Not that that means his books are bad... They're fun like Rambo movies or Mickey Spillane's "Mike Hammer" books... But mentioning them in the same breath as Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman? No fucking way.

Also, check out this comic strip showing Frank's creative processes... It's hilarious...http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2007/05/25/frank-millers-whores/

I was actually gunna post that strip (and while waiting for the page to load, jumped onto shortpacked inorder to find it). It's from my fave webcomic XD

As in people who don't waste copious amounts of time reading or reading about comics.

I really hate subjects like this because its ...100% opinion. If you are entertained by whores and violence...he's your guy. If you want something deep and makes you PONDER and go "OH my..." than he is not your guy, by what you guys write he seems to be into giving you instant gratification.

I really hate the concept of "all he does is *insert list of all he does*" though