Topic: Shooting spree Illinois University (Read 1193 times)

  • Avatar of Taylor Kaz
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That doesn't really make sense. Dehumanization is the result of severe trauma, not just a disconnect from society. Just LIVING IN RURAL AREA doesn't make people more likely to dehumanize/be dehumanized. Not just anything can trigger a complete disconnect from reality (ie a psychotic break) in anyone, it happens specifically to those who are mentally ill, and with the most common psychotic breaks resulting from schizophrenia (iirc) the symptoms should develop a few days/weeks prior to the break and it should be able to be prevented.

The REAL ones you have to worry about are people afflicted with anti-social personality disorder, which is just the fancy word for psychopath or sociopath (although these people are usually older). They can seem like perfectly normal, and even appealing people, but one day they could just burst in shooting, and no one would expect it.

No you would have had to read more carefully, so maybe that's my fault.  Let me make this clearer.  Those in a rural area are more apt to commit suicide.  Just take a look at suicide rates across the United States.  

Let me make the connection between psychological isolation and dehumanization.  Rarely, people choose to be isolated without some social mores influencing them in some way.  To be outcasted is going to create an isolation, because those who do not follow the social norms are thrown into "prison" by the "norm police"  It's also going to create an uncomfortable feeling in the isolated individual, a feeling that they're less than human (or at least the people who do not accept the individual into their culture, subculture or whatever).  That individual's feeling can foster into a personality disorder such as anti-social personality disorder, if you like the DSM-IV, you'll know that roughly 75% of all inmates have been diagnosed with this.  Basically, they're not in prison because they have a mental disorder, they have been labelled with ASPD because they're in prison, a characteristic of the disorder is that they've been in trouble with the law.  Also it is important to remember that it can happen to anyone.  You're not born with a personality disorder, and it's not exclusive to certain individuals, could be males, females, white, black, poor, rich.  

There are a lot of things that can cause someone to break.  One of those things is when people hold onto their resentment.  That's what causes drug addicts to use, and it certainly cause one to partake in other destructive behavior.  If school shootings were easy to predict, and prevent, there would never be one.  The fact is, they're not as predictable as we think they are.  Just because you can point out tell tale signs in postidiction, doesn't mean you can find them before the incident occurred.  

Think about it, the likelihood of this happening is slim, and you cant blame someone for a shooting before they do it.  You can only TRY to get them help, but many times they're feelings are under the radar, and there's not much you can do to stop something like this from happening.
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Just my two cents, you don't have to read if you don't want to  :fogetsmile:​.

Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 11:23:16 pm by Macubex
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Okay, I was wrong. My apologies.

=(

But something needs to be done. I'm just concerned about the safety of the students.
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My brother goes there. This shit is terrifying.
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my university, NC State, is "2,110 acres on the Raleigh Campus, plus more than 101,000 acres in research and extension farms, forests and facilities throughout the state."

the Carolina Panthers Stadium is 33 acres.

tell me how similar security measures can be put in place on a university with multiple entrances and buildings as would be in a stadium without skyrocketing tuition or some other equally ridiculous measure.

This is absolutely true.

Let me just say that I live on a FUCKING TINY campus and there is STILL no way to secure every entrance into it.  I am talking about a place where (unless you're an athlete and have to walk all of one block to the athletic fields) in your normal day you will probably only cross one pretty small street.  You may cross it quite a few times, but basically every building you'd be in is either on THIS side of the street or THAT side of the street.  Even still, there is absolutely no way to block off this entire area because there are so many doors to enter every building and waaaay too many ways to get on the campus itself.  The kind of security people are wanting after things like this are not possible.
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This is absolutely true.

Let me just say that I live on a FUCKING TINY campus and there is STILL no way to secure every entrance into it.  I am talking about a place where (unless you're an athlete and have to walk all of one block to the athletic fields) in your normal day you will probably only cross one pretty small street.  You may cross it quite a few times, but basically every building you'd be in is either on THIS side of the street or THAT side of the street.  Even still, there is absolutely no way to block off this entire area because there are so many doors to enter every building and waaaay too many ways to get on the campus itself.  The kind of security people are wanting after things like this are not possible.
Plus reducing the number of entrances would be pretty stupid in case of an emergency such as a fire etc, it limits the exits. Hell, I'm just in a cegep and it's pretty frickin' huge even though it only takes one block (which is considerably smaller than most university campuses in the US.
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Yeah, right. Want to tell that to the people that got shot? I bet they thought it was unlikely too. Any loner around you could snap at any minute and shoot up the school.
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I live close to this school, and the story's pretty big around here.

From what I've heard, the guy was actually a normal person who was skipping his medication. He was actually a "celebrated student" whatever that means. I think he was already a grad student aiming to become a lawyer.

As to the subject of gun control, I had to do a paper on it, and now I believe the Constitution should drop the Second Amendment. There is enough evidence to show that gun crime itself will disappear, and that violent crime overall will drop by a significant amount. The US had 9 guns for every 10 people inside the country right now. That's insane.
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From what I've heard, the guy was actually a normal person who was skipping his medication. He was actually a "celebrated student" whatever that means. I think he was already a grad student aiming to become a lawyer.
Interesting. On a note, the shooter here also skipped his depression medication around that time when he did it.
Yikes. The correlation is disturbing.

Sorry for bringing this shooter @ finland thing again and again but hey that's the biggest, sole shooting ever happened here  :fogetbackflip:
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That individual's feeling can foster into a personality disorder such as anti-social personality disorder, if you like the DSM-IV, you'll know that roughly 75% of all inmates have been diagnosed with this.  Basically, they're not in prison because they have a mental disorder, they have been labelled with ASPD because they're in prison, a characteristic of the disorder is that they've been in trouble with the law.  Also it is important to remember that it can happen to anyone.  You're not born with a personality disorder, and it's not exclusive to certain individuals, could be males, females, white, black, poor, rich. 
Thats just not true dude. I think you are getting mixed up with antisocial anxiety disorder, which is much more common and follows what you're saying more closely. APD is only diagnosed to 3% of all males and 1% of all females, which is most definitely not 75% of all inmates. Besides this, APD can happen one of two ways: birth (psychopath) or severe traumatic experiences (sociopath). So yea, people CAN and ARE born with personality disorders. And by severe traumatic experiences I don't just mean like LOL ISOLATION, I mean like multiple rapes, beatings, torture, witnessing massacre, etc. Also inmates are unlikely to get a diagnosis of APD because most people who have it are in high-security mental institutions.
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i understand this is a forum and arguing can be like crack to some people, but you dont need to cherry pick things that i'm saying just so you can always be right.  You know enough to be skeptical, but you can also be willing to learn something.  I do actually read, i have come across in the dsm that it is likely that up to 75% of inmates in penetentiaries have the disorder.  you can also draw your own conclusions with some skepticism on that count, but the research is out there.

And nothing you are saying is actual proof of what you're telling me, that I'm wrong.  you're basically just saying NO WRONG, but as you must know, Personality disorders can only be diagnosed upon entering adulthood, ie; age 18.  That is because unlike Freud, modern psychologists believe that a personality has not solidified until after adolescence.  Diagnosing a 5 year old with aspd would get you your job taken away, even if they have had some failure in conforming to social norms with respect to lawful obligations.  Why?  because not all children that have conduct disorder or oppositional defiant disorder with grow up to have aspd.  ODD and conduct disorder being the likely precursors of Aspd.
I'm sorry, but with the whole nature vs. nurture thing, i know you're trying to say you can be born with it, but until you show me the gene that makes one deviate from social norms, you can't say you're born into it.  You see the thing about social norms is that they're learned.  That is one thing i will never attribute to being genetic.

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The reason the media blows this shit up is because it so RARELY happens.  If we had terrorist attacks in the US on a daily basis, we wouldn't have even heard of the September 11, 2001 attacks unless we were paying close attention. 

Not just "any loner" you pass by is capable of shooting up a school.  That loner needs a gun, but even more importantly, needs a lack of conscience to pull the trigger.  Most of those loners probably aren't even thinking about the assholes, but trying to predict what's going to happen in the next Legacy of the Force novel, or how to manipulate nuclear energy on a small scale, or whatever. 

My dad once told me that he was worried I might be the kind of kid to shoot up my school.  I was a really quiet kid, but it was because I was so busy thinking geek thoughts.  Yeah, I got beat up and picked on, but then I'd go home and play violent video games to make myself feel better.
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Not sure if this is real or not...but the incident took place at around 3PM and this was posted at 12 PM... (I'm hoping it's a time difference thing):


It'd be too easy to photoshop... and it isn't nearly as cool as the youtube/ manifesto deal we had with another one of these shooters last year.