Guys your missing the big picture here. It doesn't matter what language you speak as long as were all white and christian.

9/11 nvr forget

Ok, was it plain enough that time? Does anyone really think that I deserve to be called "absolutely ignorant, bigoted, making horrendous stereotypes, and being an absolutely revolting and selfish human being." because I think it's the responsibility of the mover to learn the language of the country they move to?

Yes because you think you understand the whole fucking world and you refuse to understand anything outside of your own little American-and-proud (notice I didn't say "caucasian" because HEAVEN FORBID i accuse you of acting like a typical comfortable white boy) bubble. It is to an immigrant's benefit to be able to fluently speak the language of the land he emigrated to but it is nowhere as easy as you, for some dumb reason, think it is. I know this first hand but you apparently don't give a shit because ITS JUST ONE EXAMPLE NO ONE ELSE IS LIKE THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS A DIRTY MEXICAN WHO WANTS TO SPEAK MEXICANO WITH HIS BLOOD BROTHAS FUCK ENGLISH.

Learning a new language is much easier when you
1) Are a child/adolescent
2) ATTEND PUBLIC SCHOOL AND COMMUNICATE WITH ENGLISH KIDS FOR 6 HOURS A DAY
3) watch 8 hours of cartoon network every day

Good luck learning one of the more difficult languages of the world when you have a full time job + overtime + no life outside of the home/apartment, and when no one else is supporting you but, on the contrary, making shit harder for you by mocking you  everywhere you go.

the whole point of this is the fact that you agreed with the blatantly xenophobic statement of GET OUT IF YOU CANT SPEAK ENGLISH which is, you know, xenophobic.

uhhhhhh...what.

you can't say THIS IS AMERICA NOW SPEAK ENGLISH and expect people to not follow the contrapositive.

if you are in america, speak english

if you do not speak english do not be in america.

prettttty simple there.

had to have his 4-6 year old kid tell me he wanted pizza and tokens. I'm not saying fuck him! I'm not calling him an idiot or saying fucking go back to his country. I DO think it's silly that he can't speak enough to order food but I don't look down on him for it!

plenty of american women have their 4-6 year old kids go ask for marlboros. he didn't speak the language, or he didn't speak it well enough to ask for pizza and tokens, so he got his more fluent child to do it for him.

what is the problem here? that it's embarrasing to have children speak a language better than you?

isn't it more embarrasing having a mexican who can't speak english wearing a leather coat and gold necklace see you working in a pizza store?

Man dude the problem is that you are still only talking about this ONE EXAMPLE, which is not conclusive evidence!

Speaking English is really, really hard, and it could easily be that he was learning, but didn't have enough English under his belt to order food.  I've been taking German for a year now (which is still easier than learning English would be) and I don't know how to ask for pizza.  I DEFINITELY don't know how to ask for tokens.  Pizza is something that you may or may not learn in a language class because they tend to stick to things like "SOUP, SALAD, GLASS OF WATER" and those types of things.  It's impossible for a class to teach you every single type of food, and it's even harder to learn them if you're learning the language on your own.  Tokens are something that you have to ask for so rarely (unless they are bus tokens or something but most places use cards now so...) that there is no chance of that being taught in a class.  The amount of money someone has has nothing to do with their capacity to learn also!
All that aside, it sounds like you're at a kid-themed, Mr. Gatti's or Chuck E. Cheese type place if pizza and tokens are involved.  A lot of parents have their kids order things because they're teaching them how to order things.  I was so shy as a child that my mom finally had to make me start ordering for myself or else I would have never learned how to do that kind of shit for myself.  The kid is also growing up in an English speaking environment and learns that stuff like crazy.  Little kids just soak all that up no problem.  The dad's job wasn't to PROVE A POINT TO AMERICA that day, his job was to get him and his kid some tokens and pizza and enjoy themselves, and there was no reason to fuck that up by spending an hour trying to talk to you in broken English instead of just having his son do it, which is teaching his son to talk to people anyway, and get his point across quickly without getting in other customers' way and hassling you.  Yeah, there was a good chance he was doing this partly for your sake man.

no dude, that's not how it works.

LEGAL TIME but a contrapositive is the only logical statement as true as the original.

if you want the right to stay in america than you do speak english. "you want the right to stay in america" is p. "you do speak english" is q. ergo, if p, then q, to boil it down.

now, the contrapositive is TRUE no matter what, assuming the premise is true. if p then q allows for if !q then !p. if billy eats cheese he dies. if billy does not die then he did not eat cheese.

ooorrrrr if you do not speak english, you do not want the right to stay in america.

it was your statement, no one made any logical missteps in saying you meant the above!

I said I agree with "This is America, now speak english." Not speak english or GTFO. I did NOT say that and THAT IS WHAT I SCREAM ABOUT EVERY FUCKING TIME. You guys just assume the WORST shit about me.

what?

This is America, now speak English. = what you said
SPEAK ENGLISH OR GTFO = what you didn't say

are...are you saying because people you associate with agree with you, you can't be a bad person?

christ, inbred hicks only associate with inbred hicks, that doesn't mean they are right!

you can keep saying "I only meant it's their responsibility" and that doesn't mean anything. of course it is. and guess what, they are learning English. that doesn't mean that companies and communication can't embrace bilingualism as well. it's helpful to everyone if they have the option to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish and unless you're claiming all you wanted to do was state a fact we all knew and you have no opinion at all about people who speak Spanish more and better than English (the examples you've brought up indicate that this is not the case), then I don't quite follow why you have a persecution complex.

this is pretty ridiculous.  the dude has a different opinion, get over it.  sure, it's not as understanding as yours or mine, but he surely doesn't have to provide conclusive evidence or some bullshit to validate it.  that's why it's an opinion.  He would prefer that foreigners who reside here would learn some english, but would not force one to leave, which he has clearly restated.

You can argue reasonably about why you disagree with an opinion (which i have seen very little of in this topic), but you can't try to tell them what their opinion is just to make it seem worse.

What am I talking about, this thread has gone to shit anyways.  What happened to 9/11??

Sorry man, DarkAngel showed up, everyone had to throw into ATTACK MODE

edit: spanish is a much prettier language than english my suggestion is everyone learn spanish instead

this is true but spanglish is disgusting

this is pretty ridiculous.  the dude has a different opinion, get over it.  sure, it's not as understanding as yours or mine, but he surely doesn't have to provide conclusive evidence or some bullshit to validate it.  that's why it's an opinion.  He would prefer that foreigners who reside here would learn some english, but would not force one to leave, which he has clearly restated.

You can argue reasonably about why you disagree with an opinion (which i have seen very little of in this topic), but you can't try to tell them what their opinion is just to make it seem worse.

What am I talking about, this thread has gone to shit anyways.  What happened to 9/11??

except he's never backed down from his original statement. "This is America, now speak english"

okay, is it a stretch to say if you want to be/are in America, then you have an obligation to speak english is a CORRECT rephrasing of the statement?

and then the contrapositive of if you feel like you don't have an obligation to speak english, then you do not want to be/are not in America.

which is what everyone is taking issue with. you can think that's some grave misinterpretation, but when coupled with his later example of someone asking their children order food for them, it's pretty clear that despite what he's trying to backpedal now, his original claim was that YOU'RE IN AMERICA; NOW SPEAK ENGLISH was in agreeance with the contrapositive, meaning (essentially) that if you aren't speaking english, get out of America. that's what he said. he can BACKPEDAL now and say OH I NEVER MEANT IT I JUST MEANT THEY HAVE AN OBLIGATION but that doesn't change the fact that the initial reaction is to his first statement, which guess what is a fair leap for anyone to make, especially considering his later examples.

that and the idea of an OBLIGATION to forcibly learn a language is kind of hilarious and bigoted in itself. what are you going to do, NOT serve them fries? if someone doesn't want to learn a language, it's not the best decision but it's their call. ASE's mom doesn't know English, does that mean she's failing her obligations as an immigrant somehow?

and and and also the original bumper sticker is not about some bullshit obligation, it's catered to the right wing, which has been for forcibly deporting illegal immigrants for some time now.

http://www.bumperart.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=2004022501&ProductID=1934

this is not a coincidence.

also opinions without any basis are completely worthless and should be derided. hell, there are opinions WITH factual basis (eugenics) that should be derided. you have every right to criticize someone's opinion, how they phrase it, and what they are really saying. you can bury an opinion with words and backpedaling but other people are not dense to fall for it.

sounds like a matter of semantics to me, which is a waste of time when the person has already clarified themselves.  if you want to get all technical like that, isn't he just telling the person to speak english?  what the immigrant decides to do after that is up to them.

the idea that an immigrant should learn their new nation's language isn't that wild and hateful of an idea anyways.  i could probably go to many parts of the world that don't understand it and get the meanest looks when i say something incomprehendable.   

however, living in the south, i'm always glad to hear something other than a southern drawl (even though most here share darkangel's opinion).  working at subway, i learned pretty much the spanish equivalent to every meat and vegetable.

okay my question is why do you have to tell anyone to speak English?

I do not see why you think this was just some reasonable statement of logic instead of, quite literally, a bumper sticker expressing hatred of immigrants.

so it's either you take the logical approach and its xenophobic or you take it in context and regardless of backpedaling he totally agreed with a pretty stupid statement. neither is that great.

also you won't really find that idea outside the US. there are a few countries with immigration problems but very few seem to have this issue with language. there's a good article from the New Yorker I've posted before here that illustrates this well: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/17/071217fa_fact_lizza?printable=true

Dean Allen, a plump and friendly fellow sporting an American-flag tie, told me that he runs something called Spirit of Liberty; he’s also helping Witherspoon’s campaign. “Some of these people may be coming in here to get jobs washing dishes, but some of them are coming in here to hijack airplanes,” he explained. “If you’re down there trying to look at the people coming across the border, maybe a lot of them are just motivated by economics, and they want a job washing dishes or cutting grass. But I can’t tell Jose Cuervo from the Al Qaeda operatives by looking at them, because they cut their beard off. It’s like trying to get fly manure out of pepper without your glasses on, you know? I mean, not a racist thing, but they’re all brown with black hair and they don’t speak English and I don’t speak Arabic or Spanish, so if they don’t belong here and they don’t come here legally, I want to know who’s here.” He echoed McCain’s observation that the anti-immigrant feeling is strongest in states with new Hispanic populations. “The illegal Hispanic population, it’s definitely growing,” he said. “I can tell you just from how many you see when you walk in Wal-Mart, and you drive down the street and you see buildings now with writing in Spanish that says ‘tienda,’ which is Mexican for ‘store.’ You didn’t see that even a year or two ago.”

try finding that in France