Metal Gear Solid 2 is obviously more than just a simple game that's "kinda funny" at times. The way it breaks itself down to the point of ridicule cannot be attributed than anything else than purpose. It was meant to be so terrible. Just like, say, Earthbound.

But Metal Gear Solid, I'm not sure about. The thing is, that game too is quite ridiculous at times (I hope I don't need to explain why) but that can mostly be attributed to the fact it's Japanese and the Japanese like silly things a lot. It's not exactly beyond the margin of credibility as much as any average anime, whereas Metal Gear Solid 2 is.

do you like my analogy

Metal Gear Solid 2 is obviously more than just a simple game that's "kinda funny" at times. The way it breaks itself down to the point of ridicule cannot be attributed than anything else than purpose. It was meant to be so terrible. Just like, say, Earthbound.

But Metal Gear Solid, I'm not sure about. The thing is, that game too is quite ridiculous at times (I hope I don't need to explain why) but that can mostly be attributed to the fact it's Japanese and the Japanese like silly things a lot. It's not exactly beyond the margin of credibility as much as any average anime, whereas Metal Gear Solid 2 is.

i still don't see how MGS2 is some EPIC PARODY. this is HIDEO KOJIMA, the man who visits warzones and shit. i bet if you asked him he would find it completely serious!

yes, it is extremely ridiculous at times (fatman?), but no more than tons of other games.

*awaits a Hundley or Steel post about MGS2

it was almost too much after how gay raiden was, how his dumbass gf phoned him on a secret military line about retarded relationship shit, and the rollerskating fatass, an invincible woman and a vampire, but when it started to seem like they brought cyber ninja back from the dead i just gave up...that game was ridiculous to the point of insulting my intelligence and really any one elses who played it.

dude

i can think of ONE OTHER GAME that is as overtly ridiculous to the point that it cannot possibly be a serious attempt at a game, and that is xenogears (and maybe the xenosaga games but i have a sinking feeling that those are 100% sincere).  it's been years since i played mgs2, but honestly, while i understand your point of IS HIDEO KOJIMA REALLY CAPABLE OF THIS LEVEL OF SATIRE??? especially when you take a look at the body of his work as a whole, it's just... it's too absurd for me to believe that it's serious.  i know it would be inconsistent with what we know about him and his other games, but it's just so much more ludicrous than anything else he's made, that i seriously have trouble believing it's not some kind of giant weird joke.  maybe his whole visiting battlefields to........... get a feel....... for war thing was just another joke.  maybe he is secretly some kind of comedy mastermind who gets a kick out of acting like a ridiculous game designer.

man without some kind of quote from kojima or somebody saying "HEH GOTCHA" i just cannot believe someone like that is capable of parody.

I guess I'll try to seriously think about this

Of course the actual goings-on of MGS2 was nonsense but like the time it came out and the fact that there was the Patriots (Patriot Act) and GW make me think that the whole thing /was/ about misinformation and whether history books are reliable and crap

Also maybe it's just me but Kojima seems obsessed about whether a soldier can be sure he's fighting for a noble cause now/ever. Also the fact that Raiden doesn't call bullshit is utterly ridiculous but at the same time people can be like "God said go kill these people k" whether you're talking about Al Qaeda or George Bush or whatever

Take out Metal Gear Solid VR Missions and add Metal Gear Solid Integral. VR missions was only released standalone in the states, in reality it is a bonus disk included in the MGS rerelease.

Also I think it's important to point out (nobody else has) that the first 1/3 of the game on the tanker is actually not that strange at all and is fairly firmly grounded in reality.  Incidentally it was also my favorite part.

While I disagree with the notion that MGS2 is one big joke (It seems to take itself incredibly seriously, and Kojima takes it more seriously than anyone. Visiting warzones? Come on.), it IS incredibly crazy and over the top. MGS1, and 3, on the other hand, are very compelling games, with honestly, some of the best storylines I've ever experienced in a video game. Metal Gear Solid 4, on the other hand, well, I don't even know. On one hand, it looks like the most epic one to date, but on the other, with some of the things I've seen, it looks incredibly crazy and over the top, like some weird genre of comedy. I guess I'm just rambling.

In the end though, I'm sure most of this can be contributed to the perception that Japanese are wild and crazy kids to most Americans. I'm noticed that Americans (not all, but a lot) are usually surprisingly intolerant to differing styles of art and presentation, and usually dismiss those that they aren't used to as "crazy" or "ridiculous".

The entire game is "firmly grounded in reality", as everything that happens actually does happen. The Patriots do exist, Ocelot really is possessed by Liquid, Vamp really does exist, etc etc etc etc.

Just because it isn't your version of what is possible doesn't mean it didn't happen in the game. The game takes place in a different universe where giant fucking robots with nuclear weapons exist, ok.

It's safe to assume that technology is crazy, and I'm sure they'll explain Vamp more thoroughly, just like they did Fortune.

i also think it being ridiculous is kind of the point. it's to show how naive Raiden really is. everything around him is completely crazy and he's too inexperienced to tell that it is really just a simulation by the Patriots

are you seriously going to split hairs over this?

up until this point in the series, most of the events in all the games (excepting shit like psycho mantis) were firmly rooted in OUR reality.  the only exceptions were the psychic guy and some minor technological things that are probably at least semi-feasible in a conceptual sense.  it can very easily be seen that the game's supposed to take place in the same basic reality as our own, and the change isn't that it deviates from our perception of what reality is (that's deep btw), it's that it deviates from its own definition of what reality was up until that point.  and uh... it's a pretty big change.

Well dude, the tanker takes place 2 years after 1, and the plant takes place 4 years after 1.

You can have a lot of technological breakthroughs in 4 years.

like the ability to walk on water and survive gun shots to the head and possess people through surgical arm implants?

Man I was like typing the exact same reply and then I saw that you had beat me to the punch.