(ie it's near impossible for someone to just NEVER HAVE SEX. this is especially true for pedophiles because most people regard pedophilia as a mental disorder and not a sexual preference.)

No it's not. I never had it. So I think it's possible for a pedophile to never abuse children.

telling pedophiles to not act on their sexual desires is equivalent to the church telling gay people "IT'S OK TO BE GAY YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE GAY SEX."

(ie it's near impossible for someone to just NEVER HAVE SEX. this is especially true for pedophiles because most people regard pedophilia as a mental disorder and not a sexual preference.)

nah, it's a little stronger than that. since pedophilia is not a fetish, it is a direct biological misfire in the brain. there's a good chance that just by having a sexual attraction to children (once again, a mental illness!) you would not be able to distinguish right and wrong and whether or not you should molest kids.

I don't know where people got this idea of just these normal pedophiles from but the ones I've always heard of tend to look and act like...they are mentally ill.

I guess I'm confused because I was under the impression that you and Bravo were defending people with sexual attraction to children, not defending actual child rapists.

that's what i'm doing: defending people with the attraction. some of you are saying that having the fetish immediately makes that person evil and a menace to society. now, a rapist is a rapist is a criminal regardless of the age.

nah, it's a little stronger than that. since pedophilia is not a fetish, it is a direct biological misfire in the brain. there's a good chance that just by having a sexual attraction to children (once again, a mental illness!) you would not be able to distinguish right and wrong and whether or not you should molest kids.

I don't know where people got this idea of just these normal pedophiles from but the ones I've always heard of tend to look and act like...they are mentally ill.

stfu how do you know this! gimme proof and i'll get off your ass about this!

nah, it's a little stronger than that. since pedophilia is not a fetish, it is a direct biological misfire in the brain. there's a good chance that just by having a sexual attraction to children (once again, a mental illness!) you would not be able to distinguish right and wrong and whether or not you should molest kids.

I don't know where people got this idea of just these normal pedophiles from but the ones I've always heard of tend to look and act like...they are mentally ill.

Tell me - which definition of "Mental Illness" (at least those offered by the APA or the DSM) state that all mental illnesses include the loss of being able to tell right from wrong? Because the way you use that term sure makes me think you believe thats the case.

You're not a psychologist or a psychiatrist - I'm not either. Thankfully I have one sitting next to me... (Hooray for my interesting ex-girlfriend) I'm running what I'm posting past her so this post comes with some accreditation.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition Text Revision (DSM-IV) criteria for Pedophilia are:

1. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger);

   2. Sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty OR the person has acted on these sexual urges.

   3. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

There is no criteria that states people with sexual urges towards children HAVE TO, WILL or WANT to abuse a child to be diagnosed as a pedophile, nor does it mean that pedophiles have to, will or want to abuse a child.

It's people like YOU that cause non offending pedophiles (such as ones that are ashamed of their sexual desires or the ones that choose not to act on them due to legal common sense) to NOT seek help because it's people like you that alienate them as a group thats 99.9% dangerous.

Back on Focus:

This seems like federally sponsored entrapment to me... And to top it off, they are just links, not leading to any illegal material, so how can you punish someone for looking at CP when they actually didn't see any?! Thats like the government arresting me because I WANT to snort a line of coke off a hookers ass.

   2. Sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty OR the person has acted on these sexual urges.

the point of this is the WANT TO ACT ON IT is causing the marked distress or interpersonal difficulty, not some just...weird side effect of being a pedophile. I said many pedophiles never DO ACT ON IT. you can't! kids are watched constantly! and then there is social pressure and feeling gross about it. but they want to. why is everyone so fucking stupid that they don't get the idea that by virtue of being a pedophile, you have feelings, unwanted or not, that make you want to molest children? that is what being a fucking pedophile is!

all pedophiles want to act on their urges otherwise they would not be pedophiles. they would instead, idk, want to wear a diaper or some shit. it's not a fucking fetish. the fact that it is in the DSM IV is indicative of this. there is no such thing as the pedophile sitting at home crying himself to sleep at night because he feels just awful constantly and this is all he ever does, he would NEVER EVER ACT ON IT, he's going to bootstrap himself through pedophilia just you wait!

all sexual attraction comes with a degree of wanting to have sex with the person in question. will you at least admit that small point?

and will you admit that when the sexual attraction comes from such a deviant source as CHILDREN, the person in question isn't just going to say "whew, glad I convinced myself not to be a pedophile there!" and do this everytime?

if so, will you give your child to a pedophile who swears they can control their urges? this isn't a strawman, you clearly believe that there are all these weepy ashamed pedos out there who just control themselves always and never at all act on the urge that, you know, makes them pedophiles. there's no way that they also might have problems recognizing control and social issues because of their mental illness. mental illness is always JUST ONE JUST ONE ONLY. pedophiles have just this perfect system of locks and balances that prevents them from molesting kids because it was just this one misfire, no waaaaay would they molest kids.

also you...did you seriously bring up another one of your fucking girlfriends. you are so goddam pathetic.

I'M STEEL I AM ANGRY AND UNREASONABLE WHEN I HAVE AN OPINION THAT IS CHALLENGED INSTEAD OF DICKSUCKED

edit : PS, BravoSector's posts were pretty terrible but man Steel you are ranting against other people's legitimate posts backed up with evidence just because you are worked up and ANGRY.

no! I'm not! he just quoted a part of the DSM IV that says pedophilia can be DIAGNOSED by symptoms such as distance from others and RAPING CHILDREN and is ignoring the fact that these two are very related. these people aren't seeking help because they just get boners, they are seeking help because they get boners and kind of want to do something about those boners, namely have sex.

how is no one getting this? can we at least agree that the qualification for being a pedo is sexual attraction towards children and that sexual attraction almost always comes with a desire to act on that urge? therefore can we agree there is no such thing as a safe pedophile? someone in treatment probably doesn't count (barring that they are just starting or whatever), but I think everyone is giving far too much credit to pedophiles not wanting to act on their urges ever.

and since pedophilia is so socially condemned (rightfully), it's not like they can seek a normal venue for these urges. the options are then to either resort to molestation or spend day in and day out resisting your sexuality, something very few (less than a percent) of people can successfully do. and since they can't BEAT PEDOPHILIA ALONE, they will either act on it or get progressively worse until they act on it or something terrible happens like they kill yourself! this second process is also the reason you will see pedophiles with additional mental problems, and there are very few "happy" pedos out there since they all suffer from some form of depression.

or obviously go screaming in terror and say DOCTOR DOCTOR I GOT A PROBLEM which more and more people do.

but this belief that I'M the reason pedos are all not seeking treatment is hilarious. it's NAMBLA and apologists that have made pedophilia okay!

edit : PS, BravoSector's posts were pretty terrible but man Steel you are ranting against other people's legitimate posts backed up with evidence just because you are worked up and ANGRY.

HEY WHAT F U!

how is no one getting this? can we at least agree that the qualification for being a pedo is sexual attraction towards children and that sexual attraction almost always comes with a desire to act on that urge? therefore can we agree there is no such thing as a safe pedophile? someone in treatment probably doesn't count (barring that they are just starting or whatever), but I think everyone is giving far too much credit to pedophiles not wanting to act on their urges ever.

Those are completely reasonable conclusions, but those aren't what you were saying! Or rather, that might have been what you were TRYING to indicate but your OVERLY ANGRY posting (or maybe it's just the formatting) made it hard to see those conclusions.

You made blanket statements that all pedophiles are unequivocally dangerous and harmful. To a great extent, many are! But you are acting like they should be treated as pre-emptively guilty for being child molesters just because they have a mental illness. It's no different from saying 'we should seek out all schizophrenics and lock them up for the sake of society'.

At this point I am just going to quote Dada:

Every pedophile is harmless until that person becomes a sex offender. You say they all do at some point, but that's what you yourself personally believe. In reality, there is no scientific ground for such a statement and there are no studies that prove it either. (None actually try, since it's virtually impossible to prove.)

I know that this is a sensitive topic, but if you're going to engage in a meaningful discussion about it, you shouldn't present your own hypotheses as if they're fact. That's only going to make it harder to come up with a tangible solution to the problem.

Unless you are defining pedophile as 'someone who is so mentally ill that they will molest a child immediately given the chance', which would be a mislabeling of the issue, you're being overly angry and accusatory. I have sexual attraction towards lots of guys but that doesn't mean I'm gonna rape them or have sex with them! Your posts seem to mix 'violent sex offender' with 'someone who has confused sexual issues'.

Also can we all at least agree BravoSector is a moron for defending child porn.

EDIT:

and since pedophilia is so socially condemned (rightfully), it's not like they can seek a normal venue for these urges. the options are then to either resort to molestation or spend day in and day out resisting your sexuality, something very few (less than a percent) of people can successfully do. and since they can't BEAT PEDOPHILIA ALONE, they will either act on it or get progressively worse until they act on it or something terrible happens like they kill yourself! this second process is also the reason you will see pedophiles with additional mental problems, and there are very few "happy" pedos out there since they all suffer from some form of depression.

or obviously go screaming in terror and say DOCTOR DOCTOR I GOT A PROBLEM which more and more people do.

but this belief that I'M the reason pedos are all not seeking treatment is hilarious. it's NAMBLA and apologists that have made pedophilia okay!

Yeah I agree with a lot of the things in this edit and it clears up a lot of stuff so okay.

also you are the reason children are raped steel

HEY WHAT F U!

well I mean you're the one asking for evidence that pedophilia means you're probably mentally ill and will want to have sex with kids, it's not exactly the soundest argument.

the crux of this whole argument is how the government can punish people who download child pornography. the point is that people who HAVE child pornography are the ones who click these links, not DS or...r...rami...

and then the belief that these people are just harmless and masturbating at home and that letting them have their porn collection won't lead to a public acceptance of pedophilia, a mental condition that, let's face it, ruins kids for life if acted on, is all kind of silly. you can argue it's entrapment (and I said as much earlier) but people who have child porn on their computers are almost always pedophiles and all pedophiles DO want to act on their urges. this is the crux of the law's reasoning.

You made blanket statements that all pedophiles are unequivocally dangerous and harmful. To a great extent, many are! But you are acting like they should be treated as pre-emptively guilty for being child molesters just because they have a mental illness. It's no different from saying 'we should seek out all schizophrenics and lock them up for the sake of society'.

schizophrenics who demonstrate traits of possibly harming others are often "locked up" or forced into treatment. since the nature of pedophilia means you must harm others, they are a far greater threat. I'm afraid that all pedophiles are dangerous. not all equally dangerous, but by the act of being a pedophile, they pose a danger. a schizophrenic can be harmless and just sit in his shack talking to no one. we meet harmless mentally ill people every day. but pedophilia is a mental illness dedicated to sexual urges towards the most helpless members of our society, children. this isn't just someone hearing voices, it's someone wanting to DO something to someone else.

unlike sexual attraction within two men or a man and woman, the pedophile has no successful outlet with dating or hookers or whatever. it's a stress situation and that only serves to make them more dangerous, not less. by nature of being a pedophile, they are dangerous to children. nothing short of psychiatric treatment will lessen this. you can have all the control in the world but it eventually wears down.

we get angry at people so we snap at our friends instead of killing the person in question. we get horny so we go on dates and try and get laid. the pedophile has no such outlet. the few that he does, like masturbation, quickly fall short (as any virgin in their 20s will tell you). and so the idea of a "harmless pedophile" is pretty much a myth!

also I would like to clarify that if you know me at all, I don't like condemning groups of people at all. pedophiles are sick and mentally ill. organizations such as NAMBLA disgust me and horrify me, but my heart does go out to anyone who is suffering with pedophilia.

but the legal reality is that pedophilia is not quite like other mental illnesses. by the nature of the illness, the sufferer poses a societal risk. there are no harmless pedophiles. this doesn't mean that every pedophile is dangerous (whoooooo logic arguments), it just means that every pedophile poses a risk that other mentally ill people and normal people don't. as a result anyone who is actively doing something pedophilic such as downloading child porn is also dangerous, and that's the point of laws like these and prosecuting people who hold child porn. pedophilia is dangerous by its nature. people commiting illegal actions and pursuing pedophilia are more dangerous.

actually I'm feeling really dreadful about all this so I'm probably done here TRIPLE POST but yeah I feel so awful condemning a group of people for being dangerous even if they are, because they can't help it. so I'm done but basically the point is that LEGALLY if nothing else there is no such thing as a safe untreated pedophile.

So if you look at the videos of the terrorists decapitating people, are you supporting terrorists?

this and most of the arguments at this were pretty awful, because in that hypothetical you are supporting terrorists (think why they decapitated them rather than shot them (it wasn't to kill them (but to TERRORISE))) and because pedophiles don't do it primarily for MONEY

this is like leaving a battery on the ground and following the people home to see if they have any portable electronics, or i guess following smoke to see if there's a fire

i am under the impression most people could become pedophiles just like most people could becomes gays because sexual contact tends to be pleasurable (measured by orgasm), that doesn't mean it's RIGHT. i'm sure you could enjoy KILLING people too (Vidcon sales, 2008) but that's wrong too no matter how much relativism your field has been sprayed with*. probably 'become' was the wrong word, maybe replace it with enjoy.

idk just because pizza is your favourite food doesn't mean you'd have to eat it ever but if someone was a pizza fiend even if they'd just eaten a lot of food i would not leave my pizza near them. i'm sure they could cure pizzaphilia. oysters or snails vs busted brains

also i think saying nambla is responsible for pedophilia is like saying the KKK is responsible for racism. both encourage crimes though i guess (classic KKK i don't know much about them)
*here i am calling relativism manure

all sexual attraction comes with a degree of wanting to have sex with the person in question. will you at least admit that small point?

No.

I know from personal experience (having sexual attraction towards certain males yet having no want or desire to have sex with those people [faust ][/faust]) that sexual attraction doesn't automatically come with the desire to ACT on sexual attraction.

Also, it's pretty common that sometime in your life you will be sexually aroused by something that you want nothing to do with, (same sex, fat people, a furry, trees, etc.) which kind of ruins your argument that all sexual attraction comes with the want to act on it.

and will you admit that when the sexual attraction comes from such a deviant source as CHILDREN, the person in question isn't just going to say "whew, glad I convinced myself not to be a pedophile there!" and do this everytime?

Given that just like any mental illness, there are varying degrees of a disorder - but for the most part, yes, I think for pedos (except for the most ill, who are usually the ones who do offend) a prison sentence spanning several decades is a pretty good reminder not to act on your desires.

Given that the (limited - I'm going out on the proverbial limb here) studies done have shown that in adult males, between 21 and 32 percent showed some sexual attraction towards small children, and obviously nowhere near those percentages of men abuse children in the US, one could argue that plenty of people that are attracted to children sexually somhow ignore or resist the desire, or have the attraction but not the want that you say supposedly comes with it.

if so, will you give your child to a pedophile who swears they can control their urges?

Could you get any more cliche'? Obviously it would depend on the person, although I don't know what you mean by "give" my child... I'll just assume you mean place in their care, like a teacher or coach or something.

the options are then to either resort to molestation or spend day in and day out resisting your sexuality, something very few (less than a percent) of people can successfully do.

Huge Assumption. How do you know how many people can resist their sexuality? LETS SEE SOME SOURCES, BUCKAROO.

unlike sexual attraction within two men or a man and woman, the pedophile has no successful outlet with dating or hookers or whatever. it's a stress situation and that only serves to make them more dangerous, not less. by nature of being a pedophile, they are dangerous to children. nothing short of psychiatric treatment will lessen this. you can have all the control in the world but it eventually wears down.

Except for the fact that studies show that only about 7% of pedophiles are "exclusive" pedos that are only attracted to children. Some are attracted to adolescents (which in certain countries is legal) and in most cases, adults as well as children and subsequently have a more healthy outlet for sexual frustration.

but this belief that I'M the reason pedos are all not seeking treatment is hilarious. it's NAMBLA and apologists that have made pedophilia okay!

When people run their mouths and their torch and pitchfork attitudes, it further scares pedophiles who want treatment into divulging what must be their darkest secret to ANYONE, regardless of confidentiality laws or confessional canon. If an unfounded accusation of pedophilia can ruin someones life, how do you think people will treat someone that says "I HAVE SEXUAL FANTASIES ABOUT CHILDREN, BUT ITS OK, I'M GETTING TREATMENT!"

also you...did you seriously bring up another one of your fucking girlfriends. you are so goddam pathetic.

Coming from angry-because-people-disagree-with-all-knowing-steel, that doesn't really mean much. Sorry buddy.

No.

I know from personal experience (having sexual attraction towards certain males yet having no want or desire to have sex with those people) that sexual attraction doesn't automatically come with the desire to ACT on sexual attraction.

Also, it's pretty common that sometime in your life you will be sexually aroused by something that you want nothing to do with, (same sex, fat people, a furry, trees, etc.) which kind of ruins your argument that all sexual attraction comes with the want to act on it.

no man thinking someone is attractive or sexually attractive is different to being sexually attracted to someone. by definition if you are sexually attracted to kids you want to have sex with them, and sexual arousal is different again (though it will probably lead to sexual attraction if you continue doing it or w/e)

please make sure you are supporting pedophiles (the people) and not pedophillia (what they do) because pedophillia is wrong hands down buddy! it is hard to support them though because i am pretty sure as a mental illness paraphillias involve a lot more choice and rationalisation than depression or schizophrenia. i'd say it's closer to substance abuse but i am going to read a book to see if things support this!

I know from personal experience (having sexual attraction towards certain males yet having no want or desire to have sex with those people) that sexual attraction doesn't automatically come with the desire to ACT on sexual attraction.

There is a *big* difference here.

In standard medical diagnosis booklets, pedophilia is a mental disorder, "if it causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

Homosexuality (or, the urges towards homosexuality), is *not* a mental disorder.

http://www.medem.com/MedLB/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZUZRUZGLC&sub_cat=355

Dude if you're trying to form a connection between homosexuality and paedophllia then stop there.

please make sure you are supporting pedophiles (the people) and not pedophillia (what they do) because pedophillia is wrong hands down buddy! it is hard to support them though because i am pretty sure as a mental illness paraphillias involve a lot more choice and rationalisation than depression or schizophrenia. i'd say it's closer to substance abuse but i am going to read a book to see if things support this!

Don't get me wrong man, I would never, ever, support any sort of abuse or neglect involving anyone, especially a child. My point is that pedophiles aren't the 99.9% dangerous group of people Steel made them out to be in all his hysteria.

In standard medical diagnosis booklets, pedophilia is a mental disorder, "if it causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

Homosexuality (or, the urges towards homosexuality), is *not* a mental disorder.

And that point of mine had nothing to do with the particular brand of sexuality in question at all; only that not all sexual attraction "comes with a degree of wanting to have sex with that person"

Yes, but not long ago Homosexuality was considered a mental disorder?

Homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1972 - the team of psychologists and psychiatrists that publish that manual agreed that the impairment in a gay persons life came from the outside stigma that came with being gay, and not from being gay itself.

And that point of mine had nothing to do with the particular brand of sexuality in question at all; only that not all sexual attraction "comes with a degree of wanting to have sex with that person"

What you said has nothing to do with pedophilia, a mental disorder. That's great that you can't personally act out on your sexual fantasies of wanting other men, but I think it's safe to say someone not right in the mind probably would, only in this case, theirs is about children.