Question Primityzm? Co o tym myslicie? (Read 1104 times)

  • Avatar of Hundley
  • professional disappointment
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 24, 2002
  • Posts: 2426
if i could be any kind of wild animal i would choose to be a tony danza
  • Avatar of bonzi_buddy
  • Kaiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 15, 2005
  • Posts: 1998
Well, as much as it is apparent Dok presents himself with a leaning towards agreement with some of the ideas presented, to be fair he did say, "I'm not here to argue for or against or anything I'm just curious what your thoughts are," at the very start of his post and I don't think we should attack him for--let alone get emotional over--these ideas no matter how crazy they are.
Oh. Yes. Of course. Er, right you are, he isn't defending the ideas of the book, definitely.

"I was just thinking... you know, this is just a mindplay, nothing serious, not considering, but i was just thinking..."
"Look guys i don't want to argue about this, don't say anything critisizing about this, just, just LOOK what i read today, it's FABULOUS"
"You can't attack me: i'm asking you not to at the very first post!! (!)"
"You can tell me whatever you want but i don't care (oh wait, i do: i pick the comments i want to answer, just in case i can convince somebody from the mob!!)"

I think it's pretty apparent he is testing the ice!

hey dok, no joke, have you been to a psychiatrist?

you seem to have no filter for this kind of stuff at all, despite being at least uh...somewhat intelligent I guess. basically you are not horribly retarded and you aren't saying you are arguing for the ideas in the book (even though you said how great it was in post 9/11 and how it changed your life here) but you seem to easily fall into extremely flimsy ideologies and politics without much thought and even if this book had some legitimacy tied to it, it's completely negated by the fact that, well, YOU'RE the one posting about it.

this idea that society is unnatural and animals know how to run the earth and all this confused primitivist nonsense...man, you should really talk to someone I think, because most people figure this shit out.
you know... i'm not entirely counting it all to that. i call dok as an living example of religious alternate of underground - musician:

if it's anything mainstream . . . I DON'T LIKE IT!!





Dok are you still going for that nutrition - thing... because this shit has been taught at the very basic classes of biology. That gorilla of yours is bullshit.
Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 06:17:01 am by bonzi_buddy
  • Avatar of dada
  • VILLAIN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Administrator
  • Joined: Dec 27, 2002
  • Posts: 5538
Well, I barely even know what to say. All joking and genuine disgust in this topic aside, I seriously do believe that you should see a psychiatrist.

Your outlook on the world is so unrealistic that you should seriously consider this option. And no, I'm not joking. You would apparently be okay with people dying because of them not having enough food, as this would "bring back balance". In case you didn't notice, people are already dying in vast regions around the world, mostly close to the equator and in Africa.

You probably don't know it, but you are what they call an "anarcho-primitivist". You believe that society should go back to the hunter-gatherer phase. Anarcho-primitivists believe it's perfectly okay if the world's population goes into free fall as it is unable to support such a style of society. Noam Chomsky has written on this subject:
I do not think they are realising that what they are calling for is the mass genocide of millions of people because of the way society is now structured and organised, urban life and so forth. If you eliminate these structures, everybody dies. For example, I can't grow my own food. It's a nice idea, but it's not going to work, not in this world. And in fact, none of us want to live a hunter-gatherer life. There are just too many things in life that the modern world offers us. In just plain terms of survival, what they are calling for is the worst mass genocide in human history. And unless one thinks through these things, it's not really serious. —Noam Chomsky
If you believe in this stuff, you should go see a psychiatrist. And again, I'm not joking here.
  • Avatar of Marcus
  • THE FAT ONE
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Sep 28, 2002
  • Posts: 2690
this is sounding like sid meier civilization logic.  the more food you have the faster your city population grows until it reaches a point where the people are greater than your food production and they all starve.

my suggestion; research light speed warp drives and reach alpha centauri to win the game.
  • Avatar of something bizarre and impractical
  • It's The Only Thing.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 17, 2004
  • Posts: 2104
Oh. Yes. Of course. Er, right you are, he isn't defending the ideas of the book, definitely.

"I was just thinking... you know, this is just a mindplay, nothing serious, not considering, but i was just thinking..."
"Look guys i don't want to argue about this, don't say anything critisizing about this, just, just LOOK what i read today, it's FABULOUS"
"You can't attack me: i'm asking you not to at the very first post!! (!)"
"You can tell me whatever you want but i don't care (oh wait, i do: i pick the comments i want to answer, just in case i can convince somebody from the mob!!)"

I think it's pretty apparent he is testing the ice!

Well, I wouldn't disagree with that (should be somewhat apparent from the way I worded my post, but maybe not). I guess I just don't think the mentality of "THIS IS SO OBVIOUSLY A BAD IDEA THAT YOU ARE AN IDIOT" sort of thing. And I don't believe that asking the question, "Hey, could we live like this?" should be greeted with, "GO SEE A DOCTOR NOW." But, I guess you guys know more about his position than I do.
  • Avatar of Doktormartini
  • Stop Radioactivity!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2003
  • Posts: 1949
I am neither for it or against it...it just seems (call me crazy, oh wait you have) that logically if we wish to end world hunger we should stop the mass production of food.  Inevitably millions would die and I agree, that is horrible.  Do you feel there is away to stop world hunger?

Dok Choy
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
Primitivism is a reactionary ideology akin to any other retarded ideology that wishes to send humanity back to the past, like with theocrats and monarchists. The destruction of industrial civilization will come with the death of billions who depend on industralization and mass-production to survive. Its popular with a lot of middle class windbags because the "exotic and idyllic" appeal of living in shit conditions give a meaning to their pathetic lives. While in reality, poor people generally want to enjoy medicine, meat, electricity, and all the comforts that come with industrial civilization.

All this "green" nonsense being spouted by hippies is disgusting and patronizing, and gives the vibe of "putting dem poor peasants in their place".

Ugh, I would punch primitivists in real life.

-
  • Avatar of something bizarre and impractical
  • It's The Only Thing.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 17, 2004
  • Posts: 2104
I am neither for it or against it...it just seems (call me crazy, oh wait you have) that logically if we wish to end world hunger we should stop the mass production of food.  Inevitably millions would die and I agree, that is horrible.  Do you feel there is away to stop world hunger?

If we stop the production of food then THERE IS HUNGER. It resolves nothing.
Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 07:02:46 am by Catslacks
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
Ugh, there hasn't been a GW member that has made me drop the fucking marbles for a while.
-
  • Avatar of Doktormartini
  • Stop Radioactivity!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2003
  • Posts: 1949
If we stop the production of food then THERE IS HUNGER. It resolves nothing.
The theory is that the people that go hungry would die down until there is a balance of people with food. 
Dok Choy
  • Avatar of something bizarre and impractical
  • It's The Only Thing.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 17, 2004
  • Posts: 2104
The theory is that the people that go hungry would die down until there is a balance of people with food. 

Who would then eat, breed, and people would go hungry again.

What is resolved here?

Like I stated in a previous post, the implication seems to be that we bounce between starvation and the minimum food required for survival, which is ridiculous because it a) doesn't solve the fact that some people go hungry, and b) throws away thousands of years of technology and thought.
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
The theory is that the people that go hungry would die down until there is a balance of people with food. 

Ugh, you are a piece of shit.

This is why I hate college politics, because its full of similar windbags (except much less nutty) than you.
-
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
long live the deer and grass revolution

-
  • Group: Guest
everythings going to blow up eventually anyway, I say we slaughter everything we can while we can, eat it all, go out and get high for the rest of our lifes on a bunch of plants we found growing in our bathtubs, And then take to the streets, kill oprah, then throw shit at tigers. It's perfect -.-
Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 07:09:56 am by Achiro
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
Btw, this "primitivist" is retarded. The most sophisticated primitivists were abortions of marxist movements, who came to their conclusion through a careful analysis of class society and its dynamics. A lot of them elaborate on marx's theory on "social alienation". then fill it with steroids. Basically, marx argued that the complex division of labor brought by capitalism, was part of the alienation felt by the worker (because instead of doing the WHOLE SHIRT, he just did a fragment and he never saw or felt the final product), and also they elaborate on marx's idea that class society was the product of the development of the means of production and the division of labor that came with it.

However, primitivists claim that the ills of society lie precisely in this development of the means of production, and the division of labor that comes with it (rather than Marx arguing for revolution because he thought the capitalist class was unable to further develop the processes of production). The nuttier ones argue for the destruction of industrial civilization, while the most reasonable ones are just "messiahs" talking about Doomsdays and preparing for the inevitable ecological collapse.
-
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
btw i read through the wikipedia article and it seems like a good novel.

I don't think the author's purpose was the same as the one extracted by Doktormartini.
-
  • Avatar of JJ
  • Official Disturber of the Peace
  • Pip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Apr 10, 2003
  • Posts: 124
I do not consider myself a primitivist, nor do I agree completely with Dok's interpretation of the book, but unlike most people here (it seems) I have actually read this book. And its two sequels. Guess what, it might do you good and if you don't want to visit a library to find out what this bullshit's really about, you can have it right here for free: http://www.geocities.com/friendofishmael/.

I believe it is important to emphasize that Daniel Quinn (the author of the book) is not by any means romanticizing the Golden Days of the Stone Age, and he does not believe that there is one right way for humans to live. Rather, he claims that humans lived in a way that worked for three million years (200 000 years as humans with our brain capacity aka Homo sapiens) and wonders why people are so surprised to find out that a system that was being invented about 10 000 years ago does not work all that well.

Acknowledging that it would be impossible for most civilized humans to return to the hunting and gathering typical of tribes, Quinn argues that modern men and women need to invent a completely different mode of existence. To do this, they must question a basic assumption of all civilized societies: "Civilization must continue at any cost and must not be abandoned under any circumstances." Quinn, borrowing from Richard Dawkins, calls this assumption a "meme," the cultural equivalent of a gene.

Honestly, this book isn't about ditching our computers and running off into the wild as many of you seem to think. I actually urge you to read the book - or at least some of it, and if it bored you then go on and live in Wonderland happily ever after. Nevertheless, it won't turn you into a savage, but it will provide you with some interesting ideas about how we interpret our history.
Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 07:55:22 am by JJ
Is it our duty to die for governments and for gods?
Is it our privilege to slave for market and for industry?
Is it our right to follow laws, set to scare and to oppress?
Is it a gift to stay in line and will it take away the blame?
  • Avatar of something bizarre and impractical
  • It's The Only Thing.
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 17, 2004
  • Posts: 2104
Honestly, this book isn't about ditching our computers and running off into the wild as many of you seem to think.

Who?
  • Avatar of headphonics
  • sea of vodka
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 24, 2003
  • Posts: 6432
the book actually sounds sort of cool, but jesus christ, i can't even think of a joke or a statement to express myself here.  doktormartini, you keep me in a state of perpetual semi-amusement.  i cannot believe you are this.... this.... i don't even know.  you're just completely oblivious, and you ALMOST seem to realize it.  i'm sort of curious as to whether or not you'll eventually just buy into some crazy cult, and also how the fuck you got like this and what happens inside your mind that you readily and frequently accept crazy fantasies as reality.  that quote render addressed earlier is absurd.  do you really think animals take what they want and willfully leave the rest for the benefit of other animals?  like, is this REALLY what you think?  you are insane, man.  i mean it!  like steel said, you don't seem profoundly retarded enough that you should be buying into this stupid shit, so really, i can only assume you're somehow imbalanced.  it's like you are subscribing to some lunatic ideology that, on some level, you must know is virtually baseless in every post i see from you, and for what reason i can really only guess at.  mostly, i just really want to know WHAT HAPPENED to make you want to believe in this stuff so badly that you routinely ignore the myriad of reasons why you shouldn't.
Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 08:41:22 am by bazookatooth
  • Avatar of Evangel
  • brown priyde yea mayne
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Nov 19, 2002
  • Posts: 1621
I actually think about this pretty often.  Our civilized society is weakening our gene pool.  Human beings are no longer subject to natural selection, and any person capable of surviving through puberty can reproduce.  It doesn't really matter at the moment, since civilization makes our lives nice and easy, but I think our species will be more refined with the next great disaster (World War 3?).  Maybe we won't have to brush our teeth after all that. 
keep posting...