Music Music TOTW week 2: Hardcore (Read 4037 times)

  • Avatar of unusualgamer
  • I'M ON TV, I'M ON TV!!!!
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Aug 3, 2002
  • Posts: 760
 Alright people of Gaming World, I know that this is not your favorite genre, but it is in fact mine, and possibly tomohawkjoe's, so we are going to drop some knowledge, and shed some light on this subject.

The genre in question is Hardcore, and it's many sisters. First off, tomohawkjoe will shed some light on the original Hardcore bands, and the sound that started everything.

Hardcore
Basically, this is a much more faster and aggressive form of punk. In fact, it was often referred to as Hardcore Punk. The overall sound is just fast and aggressive. Because of this, songs were often short in length and sometimes didn't even make it over a minute. Everything from the vocals to the drums was just fast and in your face. Some bands also threw in some Breakdowns to get the crowd moving. Solos, when used, were often sporadic and atonal in nature. Subjects for lyrics were usually about the whole DIY (do it yourself) ethics and just overcoming obstacles. Everything from alcohol to violence to abuse and even procrastination. They were very straight forward and some time considered cheesy. In my opinion, that was what made hardcore, it was to the point and that was that. Live shows were RI DI CU LOUS. Crowd involvement was nuts. Shows were filled with Stagedives, moshing, and sing alongs. I think the my favorite quote (even though I forget who says it all the time) was "You don't need a mike, when you got 200 kids singing along with you" and I honestly feel that describe a majority of hardcore shows. Especially during gang sing-alongs. Four bands that are often credited as the "major" bands in hardcore were Black Flag, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, and Gorilla Biscuits (although not considered "as important" as the previous three). Black Flag, Minor Threat, and Gorilla Biscuits I could describe as more straight forward hardcore. Bad Brains differs because they could be playing hardcore one minute and reggae/jazz the next. They ware also followers of the Rastafari movement. I know what your thinking "but what about today? Are there any hardcore bands today?" Why yes fellow GWer. And imo they still hold the same sound as early hardcore.

Modern Life Is War Pretty intense band. Unfortunately they just broke up not to long ago, but alot of their music is still loved by the hardcore scene. Great band still worth checking out.

The Carrier A bit more melodic in certain parts, but still great hardcore. Although in all honesty, I like the fact that there seems to be more melodic passages in some points. Don't let that fool you though, its still pretty straight forward hardcore for the most part.

Pulling Teeth video quality aint to good. A bit more metal in some parts. Normally anything metal thrown in to hardcore is referred to as metalcore, but I honestly feel they have way to much hardcore elements and slight metal elements. I really wish the singer could be heard better in this vid, I think he has a pretty intense voice for the scene.

Los Crudos I once heard someone jokingly call them spikcore...

Limp Wrist I once heard someone jokingly call the queercore...



The next form of Hardcore to begin to rise is a little known style called Emo-Violence or, Screamo

Now, a lot of people too often label a band that screams as SCREAMO, but this is wrong, most of todays bands are Metalcore (which we will get to later on in this topic).

Emo-violence began in the mid to late 90's. It had the same intensity, and energy as Hardcore, but the bands were rather unknown, and only played shows for about 30 to 40 people in little clubs. This is the evolution of the now popular screaming vocals. Saetia was one of the first bands to play this new style of music. Singer Greg Drudy of Saetia founded the original screamo record label, Level-Plane Records, and still today is releasing records from screamo, post-hardcore, and whatever bands. There really is not much more to say about this genre, it was screamo at it's finest, and that's all there is to say.

I Have Dreams – These guys are probably the funniest screamo band to ever come out, but their career was very short lived.

City of Caterpillar – One of the most influential screamo bands to ever come around.

Envy – This Japanese band is probably the most well known screamo band, and probably had the longest career haha.


Now for tomohawkjoe's input on Metalcore:


Metalcore
What is there to say about metalcore? Well, for one, it fused elements of metal and hardcore. Pretty simple right? Well, this is one genre that has seen many arguments and debates. Why? Because unlike hardcore, were the band's sound was easily recognizable, metalcore has become somewhat deluded and often contains bands that some (like myself) would consider metal. So what exactly does metalcore sound like anyways? Well, to me its a clear fusion of metal and hardcore. Bands were you can clearly hear elements of hardcore and metal. I think this can easily be seen in bands like Integrity and Converge. However, alot of the genre started to lean more towards the metal side and became largely influenced by melo-death bands like At The Gates and In Flames. This resulted in bands having a more melodic death metal sound and less hardcore elements. To be honest, some of the metalcore bands today consider themselves that because they have breakdowns. I know, its stupid. Aside from that, as stated before, you got bands with a more melo-death sound such as Prayer for Cleasing, Darkest Hour and Dead To Fall. This is the more popularized metalcore that you see today. But, it really has almost become a different entity than its predecessors. Theres a lengthy list both Smoothy and I posted here




And, I will discuss one of Metalcore's sister sub-genre's Christian Metalcore


There is no really notable difference in the two, other than Christian Metalcore is more focused towards the faith of Jesus Christ, and obviously Christianity. Practically all of the bands in this genre do not curse in any of their lyrics, their songs are more focused on life values and Christian morals.

For example, August Burns Red's song Composure:

Shake it off.
Pick yourself up, they say.
Your life fell apart in your hands, and you've got the scars to prove it.
It's not the first time, and they're getting deeper.
Pull it together.
Button up your shirt.
Roll down those sleeves.
Don't let them see how you've coped.
More and more your demeanor looks like quicksand.
It seems like your giving up on everything you worked for.
It's pulling you under.
It's gripping around your throat.
Life can be overwhelming,
But don't turn your back on the strongest crutch you've ever.
They have always been there to brace your fall.
Wave goodbye to the past.
You've got your whole life to lead.
It's time to gain some ground.

And, for the fun of it, here is the video to Composure

The most notable band of the genre would definitely have to be UnderOath, they sold huge as being a Christian band. Their sound may have changed drastically today, with the replacement of Dallas Taylor for Spencer Chamberlain, but they remain faithful till' the end.

The Devil Wears Prada – These guys are definitely my favorite Christian band ever, their music is so unlike all the other bands that label themselves as Christian, and nobody would expect them to have an extreme faith. These fellows are also coined for their intense breakdowns, just take a listen to any song.

I guess instead of listing a bunch of bands, I will just name some record labels, and you guys can pick any band from there to listen to!

Rise Records
Tooth and Nail Records
Solid State Records

Yet again, it is tomohawkjoe, and he is going to tell us about Deathcore this time.



Deathcore
First, I'd like to acknowledge the ridiculous title of this genre and I'd also like to state that I feel many of the bands in this category should be called death metal instead, but do to some genre elitist and Metal Nazis who want all their death metal to be from Sweden, this term was created, honestly to slam certain American death metal bands. Second thing I'd like to point out is that if you don't like death metal, just skip this right now. However, some bands really do fit in this category. So what is deathcore? Well its suppose to be a fusion of hardcore and death metal, but its really a fusion of death metal and metalcore, or in most cases, death metal with gratuitous use of break downs, which is stupid because death metal has used breakdowns way before deathcore was created. I'm not going to go to into this genre because honestly, its become so vague and deluded it becomes a tad difficult to differentiate death metal from deathcore. But here are some bands that are "big" in the whole scene. Don't ask me about the lyrics, because I doubt any of you want to know about such "amazing" lyrics as "she bled from every fucking hole".

Suicide Silence This band really bores me. Hey guys lets play really low shit and throw some growls and breakdowns over them. Yeah, that will make us brutal as fuck guys. ugh...

Job For A Cowboy Honestly, I would consider there new record a death metal recored, but again, those genre nazis don't want anything to do with these guys, so guess what, there deathcore. Pretty boring, their demo was the only thing worth listening to, and even then, its not something amazing.

The Faceless Okay, I like this band. One of the few deathcore bands I can actually listen to. The keys seem cheesy at times, but they make pretty awesome music. This is another band I would label as deathmetal. Good songs, nothing flat out amazing or anything, but still worth a listen.

Beneath The Massacre Hey, another band I consider death metal, whaddaya know? In all honesty, I know 90% of GW will hate this band, because there one of those "super uber technical bands" that really get very samey very quick. But fuck man, I don't know why, but I really dig this band. I mean, there something I would 99.9% of time disregard because they really are just "hey look, were technical" but sonofabitch, I really like them. Quick heads up, there drummer sounds like a metronome half the time.

Born Of Osiris these guys are getting alot of praise right now. The band members in this band are pretty much teens straight out of highschool. While I don't think they are even close to the hype they get, they're alright. I like the groovy meshuggah-ish parts, but thats about it. Who knows, maybe they'll get better, they haven't been around for that long. Their synth tone is really cheesy, in a bad way.




One more genre, and this topic is open for discussion. Southern Hardcore.

This genre is my absolute favorite Hardcore-based style EVER. It is pretty much a bunch of guys with beards and flannel shirts playing ZZ Top influenced music haha. Well, that's not exactly it. This is a fairly new genre, and is highly influenced by the Southern lifestyle and music. Every Time I Die are one of the first bands to do this style of music, and have mastered it since their start in 2000. Bands that play this music are not xStraightxEdgex like a lot of hardcore bands tend to be, these boys love their beers, sex, and drugs. Another thing that these bands implement a lot of is the use of the COWBELL, it can be heard in practically every song by Every Time I Die, Tough As John Jacobs by Maylene and the Sons of Disaster, and many others.


And, now a few bands to check out:

Memphis May Fire - These guys are the new age of Southern, and are definitely going places. They also implement their Christian beliefs into their music, which makes them even greater in my book.

Once Nothing - This is like brutal Southern Hardcore, but still awesome nonetheless.

The Hottness Just like Memphis May Fire, these guys are also the new age of Southern, and are very very awesome. (couldn't find youtubes of them)



Alright, that is our introduction to our Hardcore TOTW, I guess now it is open to discussion.

We do not want hardcore bashing, and whatever here, nobody cares about your opinion.
Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 06:12:38 pm by Smoothy Oakland
  • Avatar of thecatamites
  • clockamite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 6, 2007
  • Posts: 1445
I really don't care for metal or whatever, and I stay away from any genre prefixed with 'Christian', but some of the hardcore and southern hardcore stuff you linked to sounded really good...
I dunno, though, I never really got into hardcore punk since apart from the early stuff, it always felt like basically just 300 different bands playing the same bad Minor Threat imitations... That's the problem with any kind of hardcore movement, I guess, because any real kind of experimentation is dismissed as self-indulgent or whatever. I mean, even bands like Black Flag and Dead Kennedys had hardcore punks attacking them because they had guitar solos and because they wrote songs that were over a minute long. Also, there was the problem that a lot of hardcore fans were, well, violent morons and nazi punks who scared off everyone but other violent morons and nazi punks. So all the bands with actual ideas and stuff like Husker Du and the Minutemen ended up ditching the movement and going off in their own directions, and pretty soon the only people left playing hardcore punk were the idiots who never even tried to deviate from the formula.
Anyway, a good southern hardcore record you might like is 'Teenager' by the Dexateens: (http://www.myspace.com/dexateens , listen to 'Madelene')

EDIT: Now that I think about it, another good modern hardcore/emocore/whatevercore band is Gallows from the UK... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoehky-36K4
Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 07:02:27 pm by thecatamites
http://harmonyzone.org
  • Avatar of tomohawkjoe
  • Bitchin Kun Fooze
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Aug 2, 2006
  • Posts: 340
Yeah, you see the violence problem big time in Tough Guy Hardcore. Yes, thats what its called, tough guy hardcore. Its pretty much hardcore, but its sung by a bunch of testosterone driven gorillas. I mean, they have videos were they advocate fucking drive-bys. I didn't want to touch it because I was almost positive GW would hate it.
you will fail
  • Avatar of unusualgamer
  • I'M ON TV, I'M ON TV!!!!
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Aug 3, 2002
  • Posts: 760
Tough Guy Hardcore is the biggest disgrace to Hardcore music ever.
  • Avatar of Ryan
  • thx ds k?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2003
  • Posts: 4460
i love bad brains and black flag so much. minor threat too to some degree but yeah.

fugazi are great too but they're not really hardcore so yeah. :)
  • Avatar of Quest-Master
  • Now and forever.
  • PipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 26, 2003
  • Posts: 218
If you guys listen to anything from here at all, let it be City of Caterpillar.
  • Avatar of thecatamites
  • clockamite
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 6, 2007
  • Posts: 1445
Haha, I never heard of 'Tough Guy hardcore' before... It's like something out of American History X...
And while I was looking it up, I stumbled upon another genre called 'Posicore' or Positive Hardcore which seemed just as inane. It's all about how you should be yourself and stay true to the spirit of punk and never smoke or drink and be kind to animals and stay in the scene and all that crap... I mean, okay, it's not as obviously retarded as Tough Guy, but it's still a little depressing to see punk rock turned into a Disney film.
Now all I have to do is find some Ambivalentcore bands and I'll be set...
http://harmonyzone.org
  • Comrade!
  • PipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: May 2, 2005
  • Posts: 230
Quote
And, I will discuss one of Metalcore's sister sub-genre's Christian Metalcore


There is no really notable difference in the two, other than Christian Metalcore is more focused towards the faith of Jesus Christ, and obviously Christianity. Practically all of the bands in this genre do not curse in any of their lyrics, their songs are more focused on life values and Christian morals.
this is the weakest garbage in the world, probably the worst "genre" of all time


this thread needs more breach
  • Avatar of unusualgamer
  • I'M ON TV, I'M ON TV!!!!
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Aug 3, 2002
  • Posts: 760
what makes it so bad?

is it that the bands believe in God, and aren't satanic, or that their lyrics aren't about wizards and demons or something stupid that metal bands sing about?
  • Avatar of Shepperd
  • MUSULMAEN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 23, 2004
  • Posts: 2618
I am surprised you made no mention of Rites of Spring, said to be the pioneers of emocore.

Regardless, Hardcore has very blunt and stupid nature, y'know, it wholely revolves on speed to create energy. While Minor Threat and Bad Brains went beyond their genre, the former unintentionally created the straight edge movement, the latter brought funk elements to punk, I do not find these bands to be inventive at all. It is too linear and to the point, all to create a statement, to unleash the energy, but to me it is pretty redneck rocker.
I rather listen to Minutemen's sense of linear and to the point music. Damn now they were true punks. Their first albums were hardcore and was mad inventive, it had the statements, the political messages, the energy, all those things and all was done in a graceful manner.

Ryan, Fugazi was a group of ex-hardcore musicians that decided to play stuff that contained the intensity of the hardcore energy but in a more cerebral way. Building up tensions, and releashing, playing angular riffs, fiddling with disonance, stop and starts, intertwining geetars. These guys invented post-hardcore. They are so fucking genius, and much more interesting than their previous proyects.
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
Quote
While Minor Threat and Bad Brains went beyond their genre, the former unintentionally created the straight edge movement, the latter brought funk elements to punk, I do not find these bands to be inventive at all. It is too linear and to the point, all to create a statement, to unleash the energy, but to me it is pretty redneck rocker.

oh for fuck's sake.
brian chemicals
  • Avatar of dark_crystalis
  • The devil himself
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 26, 2003
  • Posts: 790
I kinda liked Bad Brains but I find most other hardcore and metalcore bands completely boring and bland. Also for deathcore, a lot of them have been mixing an equal amount of death and hardcore but in general you can tell very well if it's deathcore of death metal. Beneath the Massacre isn't deathcore and I haven't heard anyone else call it deathcore either. It's technical death metal, I agree they completely suck though. Man, that band uses triggers on EVERYTHING. They're just technical for the sake of being technical. Born of Osiris would be considered to be more metalcore than deathcore too but I don't know them enough.
  • Avatar of ThugTears666
  • You probally thought you werent gunna die today suprise!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 7, 2002
  • Posts: 3930
Interesting topic,;) Haha some of that Southern stuff was pretty funny. I'm gunna check out Fugazi cause I always hear shep raving about them, also Henry Rollins is doing a spoken word tour here so my interest in this stuff is probally higher than it will ever be.

And yeah I also tend to avoid Christian genres, they are usually ridiculously cheesy and just not that good especially if you arent a Christian. yes, i will say i prefer cheesy metal lyrics, i love hearing black dahlia sing about wolves crying out for flesh.
Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 02:37:39 am by Afura
  • Avatar of church_gone_wild
  • 2_HOT_4_U
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Aug 7, 2002
  • Posts: 69
dis is very informative topic...

i remember being a huge saetia fan back in the day, but i can't stand that kind of music anymore; mostly the shrieking. wasn't billy werner the vocalist, not greg drudy? either way, his singing/screaming in hot cross was better imo.  maybe i am not #1 screamo fan after all.....

also you did not mention welcome the plague year, what. though they weren't really PIONEERS or whatever, they were excellent!!
Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 08:21:11 am by Bahamut
  • Avatar of Shepperd
  • MUSULMAEN
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 23, 2004
  • Posts: 2618
so basically steel doesn't share my opinion. Great post, you add to nothing. At least if you would care to expand it would make things a bit interesting.

Afura, go for their album Red Medicine. It is their most inventive album, covering a wide range in the genre spectrum so you can get a general idea of what is the Fugazi direction.
Their other albums seems to be more closed genred.
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
so basically steel doesn't share my opinion. Great post, you add to nothing. At least if you would care to expand it would make things a bit interesting.

you do this every damn time though. you'll state some completely bizarre indefensible position and wait for someone to quote you and be like "wait what" so you can ramble about something else incomprehensible. like, in the protopunk topic:

Quote
They are psychedelic R&B-esque

what the fuck does this even mean? even wikipedia says they are a progenitor of proto-punk and wikipedia never posts that shit. and then tell me what genre R&B-esque is and how any of that precludes protopunk.

and then we have

Quote
While Minor Threat and Bad Brains went beyond their genre, the former unintentionally created the straight edge movement, the latter brought funk elements to punk, I do not find these bands to be inventive at all. It is too linear and to the point, all to create a statement, to unleash the energy, but to me it is pretty redneck rocker.

how does creating an entire group of people or combining two types of genres not qualify as inventive? how is that LINEAR AND TO THE POINT? how are creating a statement and unleashing energy the same point (Sage Francis is the same rapper as Soulja Boy)? in what possible context is this shit REDNECK ROCKER?

you keep posting shit that doesn't make any sense at all! you're obsessed with genre classifications and this is the second time you've posted your unique iconoclastic opinion about music and then sat back with a smirk but it's completely nonsensical! maybe that's completely unintentional but I've been able to follow other posts. saying something like Minor Threat and Bad Brains are "redneck rock" is the real garbage post because it makes no sense at all. you might as well have just said "nope" over and over. I feel bad because I'm now guilty of shitting up the topic but you need to cut this stuff out because it helps no one and if you really do intend to say something good or meaningful you should use words that actually mean something.

also pick up End Hits by Fugazi it's the better album.
Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 02:26:12 pm by Magical Negro
brian chemicals
  • Avatar of cowardknower
  • The MONSTER that lives inside of your COUCH!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Aug 7, 2002
  • Posts: 1807
what makes it so bad?

is it that the bands believe in God, and aren't satanic, or that their lyrics aren't about wizards and demons or something stupid that metal bands sing about?

The problem with "christian" genres in general is that a large part of the reason these bands are christian is because they wanna be a metal band or w/e but feel like it would be wrong to be just another metal band contributing to the worldly cesspool of sin or something.  So instead they write a bunch of lyrics about Jesus but then the lyrics are all written around the idea that they have to be ABOUT jesus and christianity and being a good person etc so they feel really lamely focused on it and focused on making sure that the lyrics will QUALIFY as christian to the rest of the christian audience.  In doing all this, they end up using a lot of dumb stupid cliches etc.

Keeping in mind that I'm talking about christian genres in general here, there ARE singers that are Christian but still write good lyrics-- I can't think of too many really, but Sufjan Stevens is a big one I can think of off the top of my head.  But yeah, I'm not saying that they are dumb because they are Christian or w/e.  The problem isn't that the bands believe in God and arent satanic and dont sing about wizards and demons, but that their approach to lyricism lacks finesse entirely and just feels one thousand kinds of juvenile and that their primary motivator is satisfying their peers requirements for bein good little jesusites.
  • Insane teacher
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 8, 2002
  • Posts: 10515
The problem with "christian" genres in general is that a large part of the reason these bands are christian is because they wanna be a metal band or w/e but feel like it would be wrong to be just another metal band contributing to the worldly cesspool of sin or something.  So instead they write a bunch of lyrics about Jesus but then the lyrics are all written around the idea that they have to be ABOUT jesus and christianity and being a good person etc so they feel really lamely focused on it and focused on making sure that the lyrics will QUALIFY as christian to the rest of the christian audience.  In doing all this, they end up using a lot of dumb stupid cliches etc.

Keeping in mind that I'm talking about christian genres in general here, there ARE singers that are Christian but still write good lyrics-- I can't think of too many really, but Sufjan Stevens is a big one I can think of off the top of my head.  But yeah, I'm not saying that they are dumb because they are Christian or w/e.  The problem isn't that the bands believe in God and arent satanic and dont sing about wizards and demons, but that their approach to lyricism lacks finesse entirely and just feels one thousand kinds of juvenile and that their primary motivator is satisfying their peers requirements for bein good little jesusites.

i like you a lot when you make sense.

but yeah what always bothers me is it almost seems like they are "christian" just so someone can say "ah yes, still christian" or even worse "my genres? well i listen to everything from space bhangra to christian hardcore".

Kanye did a song about Jesus, and he isn't Christian rap. the issue is that really good musicians usually require some rebellion or violence or anger or passion, things you have to downplay in christianity. as a result, the best you're bound to get is Sufjan, someone more or less safe who throws a few decent lyrics together and as a result is so much better than his friends. when you take something about challenging mentality in music (maybe not obstensibly but hardcore certainly isn't about pleasant sounds) and mix with Christianity, a faith that dissuades individuality (oh boy religion debate) and rebellion, you're going to end up with a kind of gross aura!
brian chemicals
  • Avatar of cowardknower
  • The MONSTER that lives inside of your COUCH!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Aug 7, 2002
  • Posts: 1807
i like you a lot when you make sense.

My ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts.

Quote
as a result, the best you're bound to get is Sufjan, someone more or less safe who throws a few decent lyrics together and as a result is so much better than his friends.

I did not get this!
  • Avatar of Ryan
  • thx ds k?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2003
  • Posts: 4460
also pick up End Hits by Fugazi it's the better album.

man no way Red Medicine is easily the best Fugazi album.

also yeah shep you and me have pretty similar tastes but calling minor threat and bad brains "redneck rock" is pretty lol