film is finished
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95jG-GGmHsA

Ok guys, I appreciate it if you guys could give me some comments very soon. I want to have a final cut ready, so I can get a track composed by May 9th!

The title for this is pretty misleading, Psyburn.

When I said change the title from HOLES 2, I didn't mean change it to something misleading like this. I meant give it a better title like the ones RPG and I suggested for you. I know you are influenced by certain movies but you have to stop stealing other works' thunder... I mean. HOLES 2, SEQUEL TO HOLES is not a good title at all. And now you put GAMING WORLD THE MOVIE to attract some attention when it is clearly not.

You need to be more original. I know I'm just talking about the TITLE OF YOUR MOVIE here and I haven't even watched it yet (will do tomorrow) but you should get what I mean.

Some crits: I liked the opening shot until it abruptly cut into a close up of someone smoking. I just feel that the transitition was too abrupt. The other quick transitions near the end of the film made sense, but this first one didn't jive with me..

Also at 1:20 the guy is just wearing a t-shirt, but at 1:30 when he picks himself up he's now wearing a jacket. I don't know if this was intentional on your part or a mistake.

At the end I had no idea what he found and what the whole point of the film was... Could you explain it further? I usually like to think about films and see what they were trying to show thematically, but here I can't pinpoint what the purpose was unfortunately.

A plus however - I felt that the music really fit the scenes - especially when he found the lunchbox - the music crescendoed/picked up. Good job on that.

Some crits: I liked the opening shot until it abruptly cut into a close up of someone smoking. I just feel that the transitition was too abrupt. The other quick transitions near the end of the film made sense, but this first one didn't jive with me..

Also at 1:20 the guy is just wearing a t-shirt, but at 1:30 when he picks himself up he's now wearing a jacket. I don't know if this was intentional on your part or a mistake.

At the end I had no idea what he found and what the whole point of the film was... Could you explain it further? I usually like to think about films and see what they were trying to show thematically, but here I can't pinpoint what the purpose was unfortunately.

A plus however - I felt that the music really fit the scenes - especially when he found the lunchbox - the music crescendoed/picked up. Good job on that.

1. Thanks, I will try try to play around with that.

2. Both. Turned out we couldn't find the shirt or the hat again, but we planned to make everything anti-time anyway, so yeah, it's "artsy" to have continuity errors.

3. He found a tooth. I didn't stress the part where he puts it under the pillow though. Ugh. Anyway the whole thing is contrast from day to night. He digs to find a childhood, he digs to bury a body. The random cigar transitions all contribute to a timeline.

4. The music won't stay for long for the Vancouver version.

Thanks alot man, I appreciate the comments.

Change the title of this thread you jerk.

Got my hopes up for nothing.

I watched it today and I did not really like it. You have some good shots, such as with scenery and with the close-ups of the boy smoking the cigarette but in the end, it meant nothing to me. The overall picture seemed obscure for the sake of being obscure - and this is not a good thing with your audience, unless you're Lynch or Linklater. And this is another thing I want to comment on -  you WANT to be these people and that is where your downfall lies. Your work is not 'artsy' - it's just obscure. I think an amateur filmmaker should start off with something either comedic, exciting and riveting or so bizarre it stands out. This film is none of those.

A boy digs a hole, finds a lunchkit, finds a tooth in a lunchkit and then plays with the tooth, with no explanation to this series of events is ultimately pointless. I know you said the boy killed somebody or something and whatever and was digging a hole but the audience isn't going to know that unless you hint it in the movie! I know people may watch it and interpret it in their own ways but I just saw it as a cheap means to be obscure and 'artsy'.

Also, having a continuity error and claiming it to be 'artsy' is lazy. Kubrick did this intentionally in 'A Clockwork Orange', by the way, Spielberg did it in 'Jurassic Park' and Adrian Lyne did it intentionally in 'Fatal Attraction' but they are established directors of previously popular and commercially/critically successful films so they are basically allowed to do that. You're allowed too, but all three of those directors had stated their reasons for doing so and none of those reasons were, "Because it's artsy!"

My advice to you, if you want to have a career as a young filmmaker, is to make films that will catch someone's eye. Some of your shots drag and it makes the viewer lose interest. Lack of a story or a point translates into lack of interest, I think, even if you have some nice visuals and good lighting. I know 2 minutes isn't a lot to squeeze STORY into but I think a lot of intriguing scenarios can play out in just 2 minutes. It's your (or your screenwriter's) job to sit down and brainstorm them.

P.S. Please change the name of your thread!

Fuck.

Lock the topic plz thx.

FUCK.

Why?

Because you got a bit of criticism?!

Man, is that really all the new NiN album is? I haven't really every listened to them but that songs like some shit you could make in Fruity Loops in like five seconds, if you have any egality questions at all you could only improve by getting better music, geez.

I don't understand the whole falling down thing, it doesn't really explain itself. Was he tripping? It looked more like a dead fall.

The footage and everything pretty tight, the cuts fit with the techno type music, but the storyline makes no sense at all. I feel like all amateur film kids try to make crazy deep movies that end up not really having any substance. Its not really just you, I feel like its pretty common. That's why I don't ever do anything creative, I always want to make it deep and then I hate myself.

Yeah, this is exactly what I mean. So many people try to do something deep and obscure, it just comes off as haughty or wannabe-ish and not stand-out at all. This is because they're trying to emulate arthouse directors or cult directors and the movies end up being meaningless fragments.

Strangeluv keeps telling me to reply even though I told him everything I post is always fucked up and stupid. I've explained to him so many times I don't want to post but all he does is:

<Strangeluv> Why didn't you reply to the thread?
<Strangeluv> Why didn't you reply to the thread?
<Strangeluv> Why didn't you reply to the thread?
<Strangeluv> Why didn't you reply to the thread?
<Strangeluv> Why didn't you reply to the thread?

I realize that I am terrible at coming up with story ideas, so I had RPG think one up. I chose it, I made it, and apparently I'm getting shit for selecting. I am a terrible director for selecting such a shit story. I lack vision, I can't direct actors, I can't edit or do nothing. I'm not blaming RPG for anything but everything is apparently all my fault.

So far all I've got is implying STOP TRYING TO MAKE STUFF OR GET A CO-DIRECTOR. The truth is that I have no talents at all, and making this kind of shit is the only kind of passion I still remotely have some faith in. Everytime I say something like that someone always has to say "BUT YOU'RE ONLY 13". Nobody seems to understand that the teenage years all have massive differences between ages. It's true there's really nothing between a 30-33 year old, that doesn't mean that 12 yr olds are the same as 9 yr olds.

I'm really worried because I'm nearly almost out of high school, and I have absolutely no idea what I want to do. I'm an attention seeker, I want to be acknowledged. In a third person perspective, perhaps I'm just the pretentious young film maker looking to get attention who really can't do shit. I don't want to go to college at all. I want to do something I enjoy, which all I got is watching movies, using the computer all the time, and comic books. Unfortunately I can't do any of that.

I was just a faggot because I realized that I have no talents. I totally forgot that I, myself was against the whole emulating-arthouse-directors things a whole year ago. I didn't know I was trying to emulate directors, I've never done that knowingly besides the Andy Warhol thing which was just for fun. I put all I had into this film and I don't know if I am capable of going any further I've been doing this shit for like two years now and I've never came up with something that someone simply says "it's good" or respects it. I know I made a lot of bullshit. Every time I try it's still bullshit. I'm trying to get out of the cycle but I just can't. I mean, there are fucking 14 year olds that make better films than I ever can. Even Esh's Coffee and Rose thorns or whatever shit is better than anything I could do. Have I even improved at all? Do I even have potential or something going for me that separates me from the casual film student? I can't even make something on par to the generic film school kid.

I have no problem with criticism. I have a problem with the fact that Strangeluv doesn't know shit about amateur films, has seen very few of them, and based on those standards has singled out what I've tried to make. And thus, I am losing my self-esteem because this project was my limit in skill.

And this is why I refused to reply, because I just bitch.

EDIT:
Shit now one of the composers I tried to get will probably not do the job after he reads this.

What is wrong with you, man? You always have to do this crap. Someone says something bad about something you made and you go off on some rant like "I AM SHIT." That isn't the right attitude at all. You have to learn from what you did wrong and see how you can improve it instead of wasting energy degrading yourself.

I have no problem with criticism. I have a problem with the fact that Strangeluv doesn't know shit about amateur films, has seen very few of them, and based on those standards has singled out what I've tried to make. And thus, I am losing my self-esteem because this project was my limit in skill.

Do I have to see 1000 amateur films before I can enjoy them or something? I like all sorts of films. In fact, one director I like a lot is Richard Linklater because he manages to hold my attention even though his movies usually are just about PEOPLE TALKING, like subUrbia, Tape or Before Sunset. I don't think these films were made on extremely high budgets and an amateur film can probably stretch to achieve what those films did. Even amateur films, I think, should follow the basic principles of what makes people engrossed when they see a movie. I don't think they should have to LOWER THEIR STANDARDS TENFOLD to enjoy it, arthouse shit or not.

Also, when I told you to reply in the thread, I didn't mean post lengthy essay about how your life is so messed up, I meant to address what people said so far and if you plan on improving anything and how you plan to do that.

Yeah Psyburn, grow up. People were trying to help you and they brought up valid criticism (what you asked for). I know it's easy to get attached to your project and how it feels to really like what you did only to get a different response from your audience, but that's part of the learning process. Everything you do is a learning experience, and you should try to learn from your mistakes and improve.

I personally think you've done a good job on the movie, there are some really good shots and the editing is what I'd expect from you. It's easy to see why people "wouldn't get it" because of the serious pacing issues and continuity errors. You should've never approached the movie with the 'artsy' mentality in mind, and even calling the thread Holes 2 (which I know is a joke) shows a problem in how you perceive your work. You're a hobbyist, your movies don't need to be cool, no one has expectations and people here just want to help you improve. Even people who are involved in a scholarship program would realize that they're looking for talent, and not for mature film quality. I'd say you have talent, you certainly have a 'vision', and you know what looks good.

It might be a long way to get to where you want to be, but self-pity will never help you. I realize you're 16 and that's what teenagers do, but  ranting will never do you any good. Stop blaming other people (I can't believe you accused Strangeluv of not knowing about amateur films or your response to Mateui where you claim you did it on purpose) and work on fixing the problems.

Good luck, I guess.

I liked it, personally.

To list the good points. The bedroom shots were really well lit, as were the night time shots. Essentially, the dark ones were the ones that particularily stood out.
The digging scene was pretty cool too.

Two negative observations
1. The sudden change when he falls over. Is there a way you can make this feel a bit smoother or make the jumpy nature more effective? I'm not an expert, it just felt like the sort of larks kids get on with so they can make videos of themselves teleporting and that.
2. You waited quite a while on some of the shots. Not THAT long, but just long enough to put me off slightly. Best example i can think of is the shot into the hole, showing the box. If you want to use a longish shot, it needs to have some kind of dynamic quality too it i think. I appreciate you wanted people to know what they were looking at though.

Hope this helps.

Sorry guys, I am an idiot, back to this.

I appreciate the comments and criticisms, here is my second render:
http://redculture.com/videos/ninrenderfinalv2.wmv

Hopefully it clears up the DAY NIGHT contrast.