The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl)

The Official Metal Gear Solid 4 Topic (remember spoiler tags ppl) (Read 19598 times)

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GZ

#281 June 19, 2008, 08:24:24 am

Gythol Granditti will be out "soon". Honest.
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i agree with you, i don't have an explanation that is any better than yours. however i feel that proves the point enough to say it was at the very least stupid and didn't make a whole lot of sense. just think about this, a scenario of a microwave corridor before shutting down a world controlling AI and an after death message where naomi apologizes because she KNEW they would shut it down, much like ocelot KNEW snake would shut it down too? this is beyond ridiculous. this goes along with my whole theme of they did whatever they want with very little justification. also, it has an ending that no one would ever predict in a million years (ending sequence revolves around meryl and johnny getting married). my general complaint from that comment is that the story feels very lazy, and i think that my original point still stands that it isn't very clear why snake HAD to go (again, snake sat down the entire time doing nothing).

i got an EMO vibe from snake when he kept saying HEH I DONT HAVE A FUTURE. both snake and raiden are arguing over who should MAYBE DIE??? when there are a shitload of frog soldiers around them was idiotic. i was 100% sure snake was not going to die given the theme of the game was SNAKE FEELS MORE PAIN. look at him on the boat when he saved big mama from the fire too, only for her to die shortly after anyway. this is idiotic because she literally leaped in the fire too. man, i have so many issues with stuff they did in the story i really wouldn't waste the time to list them all.

in any case, you will be hard pressed to find anyone (even kojima himself) who could adequetly defend all the decisions made in this game. as in, how it makes sense even in the game world itself. many people would agree this game is a fan service, and this is already a bad sign. i don't know what you thought of the story, but i can say with a lot of confidence the story has a tremendous amount of flaws and a lot of it is due to appealing to fans and trying to close out the series. just think the MGS series answered 95% of questions in one game, when it was a series that spanned several games and consoles.

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Fujin

#282 June 19, 2008, 09:01:23 am

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Quote

just think about this, a scenario of a microwave corridor before shutting down a world controlling AI and an after death message where naomi apologizes because she KNEW they would shut it down, much like ocelot KNEW snake would shut it down too? this is beyond ridiculous.

Ocelot knew because he planned it in the first place.

Quote

this goes along with my whole theme of they did whatever they want with very little justification. also, it has an ending that no one would ever predict in a million years (ending sequence revolves around meryl and johnny getting married).

It isn't as bad as you say it is. The explanations to questions were pretty logical to me, although much was explained by nanomachines. Actually, pretty much the only thing that irritated me is that Liquid didn't really control Ocelot at all. The ending didn't exactly REVOLVE around the wedding, it was just the setting where they showed how each of the characters are doing and the world's state through Drebin and Otacon's talks and so on. I don't see what's wrong with that.

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my general complaint from that comment is that the story feels very lazy, and i think that my original point still stands that it isn't very clear why snake HAD to go (again, snake sat down the entire time doing nothing).

Again, Snake was there to protect the Mk. III. I'm not saying my theory of the sentries' ability to attack one enemy at a time is true, but I guess there's no other way around (if you don't want to admit that they made a mistake there: why didn't the robots attack the Mk. III?).

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both snake and raiden are arguing over who should MAYBE DIE??? when there are a shitload of frog soldiers around them was idiotic.

This happens all the time in the series. Almost all action games and movies do this. Plus, since Ocelot had control of the system and had Snake as the tool for reaching his ambitions, why would he make the frogs kill Snake?

Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 09:10:05 am by Fujin

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GZ

#283 June 19, 2008, 09:17:38 am

Gythol Granditti will be out "soon". Honest.
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i'm not even going to bother here. i could get into details here but it seems you are pretty satisfied with the story, i'm glad you enjoyed the story but i did not. i think you many people have issues with certain parts of the game and these problems stem from every where (you yourself even). if you look at this topic alone you will find people talking about various things they did not like from virtually all parts of the game. the only thing i will say in response, is that the two biggest cliches in this game are the dying words, and the pausing for minutes during action scenes. i'm aware this is done a lot, but i don't think other movies / games that do this are justified in doing it most of the time either.

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Fujin

#284 June 19, 2008, 09:25:23 am

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Whatever floats your boat. I edited my last comment btw if you didn't notice.

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Ryan

#285 June 22, 2008, 01:58:23 am

thx ds k?
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i finally finished this game.

i really liked the ending. it wasn't as good as MGS2 or 3's but it wasn't bad or anything i thought. the only things that were really gay were pretty much every scene involving meryl and johnny. also a lot of the scenes involving raiden were really gay and very anime-ish. snake being half dead until he manages to have a one on one fist fight with ocelot were rather gay, too. i did enjoy the snake vs ocelot fight, though. it was pretty cool and i didn't think the controls were bad at all! probably my favorite final boss fight in a metal gear solid game tbh. all of the rex stuff was cool, too. i did find the game very easy. the only boss i had trouble with was the octopus, but that might have been because i was still getting used to the controls. it felt much easier than MGS2 and 3.

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The Dude

#286 June 22, 2008, 08:30:49 am

Artist, novelist, gamer, and friend.
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My favourite thing about this game was the way the serious situation of Old Snake's aging plight was given a slapstick role in almost all the scenes. My buddy and I played this through the past couple days, and we laughed our asses off at the Psycho Mantis inside jokes. Oh, and the death of Zero was fucking hilarious.

EDIT: You know what the sad thing is though? Despite all that's happened, fanboys will still bitch that the next game isn't about Snake. "Aw, this is going to be so gay, just give us Snake back." Damn son, war changes people.

Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 08:37:19 am by Raining Mad

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Warlin

#287 June 23, 2008, 06:22:41 am

I did ok on this one but his feet are kinda wierd!
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I must agree, they did make his advanced aging shit funny at times. Like when Ocelot was running away from him after that REX vs. RAY fight. I laughed my ass off. It reminded me of Grumpy Old Men.

As long as the next game's protagonist isn't lame and whiny like Raiden was in MGS2 I'm perfectly fine with it. Speaking of Raiden, he really manned up in MGS4, I'm serious.

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maladroithim

#288 June 23, 2008, 03:53:43 pm

Epic Hero
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Quote from: GZ on June 19, 2008, 05:46:01 am

i am guessing you are referring to the sentries (small black 3-legged robots), first of all they had no idea of knowing they would be in there (how the hell did they get in there even? the door behind you was locked), and snake did nothing at all in the room once he got there. the sentries more of less just swarmed snake and ignored the MKII, so that's not really a valid answer in my opinion. more or less i am saying they only put snake through that to try and make things more epic when MKII could have easily done this by himself, or raiden could have done it. they just wanted to go for more CINEMATIC appeal, and it was even more ridiculous how naomi had more LAST WORDS with her after death video.

As is evidenced in the final scene, Snake is suicidal at the end of the game. I'm sure that I'm attaching my own interpretation to a plot hole to patch it up for my own good, but I had thought Snake wanted to go through the corridor so that he could die. He had intended to shoot himself at the end, after all.

At one point in the game it is mentioned that Snake should have died from the aging process already but that his amazing strength of will had kept him going. My interpretation is that Snake survived the corridor for the same reason that he failed to shoot himself - he was certainly suicidal, but he did not want to die. Once he learned that he was not a biological weapon, he decided to keep on living.

I'm not 100% sure that this is what was intended because it is usually more likely with video games that plot holes are genuine plot holes and that the author is not so subtle that his tue intent can only be achieved through book club discussion. On the other hand, if any game maker were to be the one to do it, Kojima would be a good candidate!

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Ryan

#289 June 23, 2008, 06:06:06 pm

thx ds k?
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Quote from: Warlin on June 23, 2008, 06:22:41 am

As long as the next game's protagonist isn't lame and whiny like Raiden was in MGS2 I'm perfectly fine with it. Speaking of Raiden, he really manned up in MGS4, I'm serious.

if by that you mean really ridiculous and stereotypically anime, then sure! he CUTS HIS ARM OFF, HOLDS BACK AN ENTIRE WARSHIP, gets stabbed probably 300 times, it's pretty crazy!

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Marcus

#290 June 23, 2008, 06:09:41 pm

THE FAT ONE
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Raiden never once complained or "whined" at all during the game and he couldn't because he was programmed (er, trained) to accept orders. I don't know where the fuck people get this whiny attitude from as Snake has complained more times than Raiden, but I guess people just didn't like his voice actor. Raiden took down a fucking harrier, a vampire superman, 12+ Metal Gear Ray's, and he took down a dual katana wielding guy in a super suit. Raiden was a bigger badass than Snake and I can totally understand him becoming some Dragon Ball Z character in MGS4 considering the fact that he was pulling off FEATS OF SUPERHUMAN STRENGTH in MGS2.

I attribute the same thing to Tidus. The guy complained for maybe two scenes (I'd be pissed too if I found out I was someone's dream and got yanked out of my homeworld) but everyone calls him whiny just because of the voice actor and he doesn't swing a gunblade and wear a purple jumpsuit.

Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 06:12:41 pm by Marcus

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Ragnar

#291 June 24, 2008, 03:04:04 am

Worthless Protoplasm
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Yeah I always liked that fact that Raiden was all like I'M ROOKIE and yet he probably kills more stuff dead than Snake ever did even though he's all like I'll never live up to the legendary Solid Snake

http://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/

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Fujin

#292 June 26, 2008, 08:26:03 am

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Has anyone else noticed that you can take a photo of Gray Fox's ghost in Otacon's office? It was the middle of night when I noticed this and got traumas. That motherfucker's got a pretty scary face.

Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 08:34:43 am by Fujin

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Tweaked_1551

#293 June 26, 2008, 03:37:14 pm

Comrade!
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I think the whole dislike for Raiden comes from the fact that you have to play as him in MGS2, and not as Snake, also the fact his appearance in MGS2 is kind of girly. I didn't really mind playing as him though and thought he was a good character; would I have preferred to play as Snake? most definitely.

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Marcus

#294 June 27, 2008, 06:24:14 pm

THE FAT ONE
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Quote from: Tweaked_1551 on June 26, 2008, 03:37:14 pm

I think the whole dislike for Raiden comes from the fact that you have to play as him in MGS2, and not as Snake, also the fact his appearance in MGS2 is kind of girly. I didn't really mind playing as him though and thought he was a good character; would I have preferred to play as Snake? most definitely.

From a story standpoint I enjoyed playing as Raiden much more. MGS4 pretty much brings up the whole problem with Snake and Kojima's style of storytelling; he uses his main characters as silent protagonists while the side characters babble on about whatever. It worked for Raiden because the guy had no personality (and he wasn't supposed to) and Snake/Plissken was given room to develop as a character because of it. If anything MGS2 made Snake more human and I can't imagine the game having the same feeling if you played as him from beginning to end. Both characters had the same moveset so in the end it all boiled down to who's character model you liked the most. Kojima threw him in there as a big F.U. to everyone expecting to play as Snake and shit, it worked.

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Ryan

#295 June 27, 2008, 06:33:35 pm

thx ds k?
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Quote from: Marcus on June 27, 2008, 06:24:14 pm

From a story standpoint I enjoyed playing as Raiden much more. MGS4 pretty much brings up the whole problem with Snake and Kojima's style of storytelling; he uses his main characters as silent protagonists while the side characters babble on about whatever. It worked for Raiden because the guy had no personality (and he wasn't supposed to) and Snake/Plissken was given room to develop as a character because of it. If anything MGS2 made Snake more human and I can't imagine the game having the same feeling if you played as him from beginning to end. Both characters had the same moveset so in the end it all boiled down to who's character model you liked the most. Kojima threw him in there as a big F.U. to everyone expecting to play as Snake and shit, it worked.

i agree! snake seemed much more fleshed out in MGS2 compared to 4. he didn't just repeat everything everyone said back to them, he actually gave meaningful speeches!

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Marcus

#296 June 27, 2008, 06:44:35 pm

THE FAT ONE
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and the manly hug with otacon...

i cried

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Ryan

#297 June 27, 2008, 06:47:33 pm

thx ds k?
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dont forget the secret handshake

though hearing the music reminded me that MGS2's theme is easily my favorite out of the series

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pburn

#298 June 27, 2008, 07:14:01 pm

What, me worry?
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Quote from: Ryan on June 27, 2008, 06:47:33 pm

though hearing the music reminded me that MGS2's theme is easily my favorite out of the series

For anyone who hasn't seen this yet.

Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 07:16:45 pm by Psyburn

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Marcus

#299 June 28, 2008, 11:58:00 am

THE FAT ONE
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Man, I completely forgot about the GECKO shitting from the old trailers. Why the hell did they remove that???

Also, in the original opening for the B&B, Raging Raven and Crying Wolf actually cut the rebels in half when they fly by but it was edited in the final version.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#300 June 28, 2008, 04:02:31 pm

Insane teacher
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it shits in the game too! same part.

brian chemicals

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