Hahaha humans digestive system wasn't meant for vegetables?  What?  Every vitamin/mineral you get from meat can be obtained via a non animal source.

Let me clarify my post:
Of course human can consume vegetables and extract nutrition from it but not as efficiently as from meat. The only part in human's body which can absorb nutrition from vegetables is large instentine and it kind of does weak job at it.

This is kind of understandable when you remember that in human's earlier evolutionary stages we were first gatherers, hunter-gatherers and then carrion animals.
I admit that i am not SO sure about this as the details of the document of National Geographics i saw are not so clear anymore. What i do remember is that at some point in the history the food got scarce and it was by then human's jaw developed to eat dead carcasses of e.g. rabbits they found from desert - This information supports Alec's point that human's teeth are basically meant for meat.
The whole point of these physiological details is to support the point that human's development has been dependent on meat. (See: my reply to Marmot's post)

And yes, of course you can obtain all the vitamins/minerals from other sources, i did not say it was not possible. What i am saying though is that there is a big threshold to start being a one since it requires more efforts and resources.

How would we run out of food? There is food everywhere?

This is obvious: if everybody in Earth suddenly turned to vegans, we would not have enough space in Earth to turn into an arable land as we need to eat triple times more vegetables compared to meat.

So let's imagine some consequences: More than half of the current earth's human population dies in order that there would be enough food for everyone (environment's carrying capacity, you see). Strict birth control (i.e. LOTS OF DEAD BABIES IN THE RIVER) ensues to keep the population stagnant and to ensure that there will be enough food in the future. As we depend on harvest's, any crop failure has huge catastrophically consequences. As we need all the free land for fields, all the species will suffer and many will die out as they lose their habitats for the fields. This means both earth and water lands.

I wouldn't call this ideal, would i?

marmot:
evolution isn't triggered by "meat-eating" - its not like the nutrients of the meat accumulate through generations. that reminds me of lysenko.

The point is really that herbivores needs to eat constantly thorough the day while carnivores can satisfy the daily food demand with few meals in a day, thus giving them more time to focus on other things. An example of this from fauna is e.g. lions: with one meal a crocodile can satisfy their hunger for few months, spending that time to resting and saving energy (the advantage of cold-blooded is that you can just sit in the sun to upkeep your body temperature). Or as in human's case, spend time to creative/intellectually challenging stuff, thus promoting brain's evolution.

I don't drink milk because I think it's cruel.  You imagine having a machine suck your nipple dry for hours at a time.  You imagine lactating not because it's your body's time to lactate, but because you've been pumped full of hormones that allow you to continue lactating after you've birthed and weaned.  It just doesn't seem right to me.  As far as eggs go, no thanks.  I don't think they taste good, and I don't like the idea of eating unfertilized chicken.

Cows nowaday love having their nipples sucked by machines nowadays though. Like really love it. In the morning they can just stand there and wait for it, this is probably because of the breeding and because milk not being sucked can be painful but still if they like it why deny it?

I believe you have little experience of cows Lyric not only do they like having their milk sucked dry by a machine but they are also incredibly stupid and I'm pretty sure that they don't suffer in modern countries unless the farmer is an evil son of a bitch.

evolution isnt triggered by "meat-eating" - its not like the nutrients of the meat accumulate through generations. that reminds me of lysenko.

evolution is triggered by a bunch of random alleles coupled with natural selection.  we arent meant to act in a certain way in the way goddamn doktormartini says we should "all be natural"" because that pressupposes that there is a god that designed us to act in a certain way. our bodies have certain phenotypes because that is how generally we survive better, but if our behavior changes because of technology we are going to evolve in a different way.

meat-eating is not essential in industrial civilization but a lot of things harmful to animals and the enviroment arent "necessary" (like the internet) for survival. as i said the vegan argument is stupid and if you dont want to harm mammals you should move to a cave

the development of our modern brain is directly related to the large amounts of protein our primitive ancestors started getting when they started hunting.

The problem with your arguments for not drinking milk (the whole cruelty thing) and a lot of your arguments for not eating meat are all flawed because they are based on the methods used.  Not everyone is cruel in the way they milk their cows, hell, a lot of local farmers are downright NICE about it.  They also see to it that the calves are treated the same way, because they are THEIR LIVELIHOOD.  You are against milk and meat because you are against big factories, but THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS.  Blaming the whole for a part is fucking flawed logic.

Also:

Drinking milk from another species or drinking mother's milk after being weaned is unnatural.  No other animal does this so why should we?

because other animals don't know how to and do not have the physical capability to milk other animals

Ugh I've said this before, but if a cat had working thumbs and the knowledge of how to milk a cow, it would probably spend all damn day drinking milk.  It's a difference of does and CAN.

I see.  I've always agreed that meat eating was essential for survival.

Was or is? Is? I must know Dok!

because other animals don't know how to and do not have the physical capability to milk other animals

Ugh I've said this before, but if a cat had working thumbs and the knowledge of how to milk a cow, it would probably spend all damn day drinking milk.  It's a difference of does and CAN.

Actually, it has been proven that other animals may abuse the milk producing of the cow, i recall there was this horse calf who did this at one farm? I saw this documentary... - ugh this isn't really contributing too much to the discussion, i guess i am just agreeing with Velfarre here!
I love how much i rely on/cite to "hazy memories"................ "scientific proofs"... feh feh............

Was or is? Is? I must know Dok!

hahaha

Actually, it has been proven that other animals may abuse the milk producing of the cow, i recall there was this horse calf who did this at one farm? I saw this documentary... - ugh this isn't really contributing too much to the discussion, i guess i am just agreeing with Velfarre here!
I love how much i rely on/cite to "hazy memories"................ "scientific proofs"... feh feh............

I've seen lots of news stories of grown animals surviving on the milk of other, larger animals (so not just babies who would normally drink milk), but I don't really have any I can find at the moment.

When I saw your name at the bottom I thought it was Lyric. Lyric how come you never really try to debate your side? You just seem to randomly post more questions.

Erm a little off-topic but:

You imagine having a machine someone suck your nipple dry for hours at a time.

 

Chickens are bred to eat them, they don't have a purpose other than being on my plate next to boiled rice and mayonnaise. Same goes for cows and pigs. So, stop  romanticizing their lives please.

Also yeah, there are plenty of animals who can use the milk of other species. Pigs adopted lion cubs, dogs adopted cats and so on.

Pigs adopted lion cubs

man I forgot about this one those pictures were adorable

edit: whoops it was a tiger, even still...also the other way around (pigs nursing from a tiger)....oh well it has been a long time since i saw this story

I wasn't trying to argue for veganism, it's really difficult to be Vegan and actually healthy obviously.  I don't think I would ever want to invest the amount of time it takes to plan a vegan diet; also, it's nice to have to follow a STRICT DIET and seriously opens my life up a lot more.

I'm a vegetarian, btw.

True they feed cows shitty grain.  But the amount of meat that Americans consume calls for a great deal of extra feed to be produced.  You heard from Leric, he eats meat 3 times a day.  In my experience (not a valid argument, but whatever), this is really common among my fellow Americans.  Because of this incredible demand for huge amounts of meat, we have things like factory farming which is horrible and pretty much one of the main reasons why I choose vegetarianism.

Veganism doesn't have to be planned much if you dont' give a shit about health.  Just eat what you want (as long as it's vegan), make sure you are taking a multivitamin (I don't because I make sure I eat a wide variety of foods and fortified foods), and drink soymilk that is fortified.

Basically everyday I make sure I get some greens cause those are the most important, and fruits, and grains and all that.

Veganism doesn't have to be planned much if you dont' give a shit about health. 

good selling point, I want to try this veganism because i dont give a shit about being healthy

just the fact that you are forced to take supplemental vitamins unless you are batshit crazy like doktormartini and forage for dandelions kind of proves it's not the MOST EFFICIENT, HEALTHY WAY TO LIVE

Let me clarify my post:
This is obvious: if everybody in Earth suddenly turned to vegans, we would not have enough space in Earth to turn into an arable land as we need to eat triple times more vegetables compared to meat.

e.g. lions: with one meal a crocodile can satisfy their hunger for few months, spending that time to resting and saving energy (the advantage of cold-blooded is that you can just sit in the sun to upkeep your body temperature).

Are you serious?  You have no idea what you are talking about.  So much water and grain feed go into each pound of beef produced that the calorie ratio is seriously like 1 : 100.  Eating meat is a horribly inefficient to get energy from the sun and into our bodies.

Also lions are mammals.

I don't think it's unethical to eat meat (we are clearly wired that way), but it's unethical to eat a lot of meat.  Our fast food drive-through system isn't sustainable at all, and by eating meat with every meal (you only need a few ounces per day), you're supporting the factory farm infrastructure that's killing our topsoil, draining our aquifers and driving corn and grain prices up.  People are starving in some parts of the world because they can't afford foods made with corn or grain due to a number of factors, but cattle feed generation is certainly one of them.

just the fact that you are forced to take supplemental vitamins unless you are batshit crazy like doktormartini and forage for dandelions kind of proves it's not the MOST EFFICIENT, HEALTHY WAY TO LIVE

I'm pretty sure almost everyone should take supplements or eat fortified foods regardless of diet because 90% of the people I know barely go a day without eating greens.

If you knew anything about basic nutrition or macrobiology, you'd also know that vegetarianism simply does not work in the long run...
It remains the biggest argument against vegetarianism, which places morality on the wayside because of biological necessity.

CELLULOSE makes up plant tissue. The human body can't effectively digest cellulose (at this point in our evolutionary history), meaning the absorption of nutrients from most "vegan diets" is minimal at best.

Plants do not have large amounts of certain fatty acids (like polyunsaturated fats), proteins or any of the amino acids needed for humans to build muscle, repair muscle, and stay healthy. The human body assimilates "complete protein chains" from MEAT ONLY. We've known this for decades.

Vegans have to consume massive amounts of food to get anywhere near the number of required zinc, iron, and calicum that meat-eaters do. Or they have to take supplements, which is still bad - just because the bottle says you're getting "100%" of this or that doesn't mean you actually are. What you're getting is a nutrient in "pill form," where bioavailability is relatively low. Natural whole foods are always preferred.

Vegetarianism inhibits a healthy lifestyle, or at least makes achieving one exceedingly difficult. Though I guess it can be a noble thing to do?

Nice sources
Celluose is hard to digest, that's why you are supposed to masticate your food thoroughly (I've read between 50-100 times) which I don't do it that much.  When you chew food you break down the cells walls, this is also done via blending or juicing.  Also we can get complete protein from other sources:
Soy, Spirulina, Wheatgrass, Maca, Quinoa, Hemp Seeds...etc

I take WHOLE FOODS SUPPLEMENTS.  Spirulina is a whole food, Maca is a whole food, wheatgrass is a whole food...etc.  It only inhibits an unhealthy lifestyle if you don't know shit about nutrition or don't care.  When I talk about supplements I am not talking about vitamins.  Vitamins are basically a bunch of vitamins, minerals, and trace minerals extracted from something and put into a pill.  The supplements I take are naturally occurring foods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyunsaturated_fatty_acid

Flax seeds, hemp seeds, chia seeds, spirulina...etc all have omega fatty acids which are polyunsaturated so yes, they are found other places than just fish.