On a more serious note from my previous post (although I still consider it valid), looking at Velfarre's post I have to ask; do you have pets (cat or dog specifically)?

Actually yeah I want to know this.  I know such a thing as vegan cat/dog food exists, so does anyone use it?  Personally I don't think it could possibly be good for them.  When selecting a dog food, I think you're supposed to make sure meat is one of the first ingredients, so getting rid of it completely sounds like a terrible idea.

A real slaughter house is actually a very clean and efficient place.

I dont know if this is so true in the United States. If it were we could eat raw bacon and undercooked meat without fear of getting any sort of food-born illness, where in someplace such as Germany they dont have these problems because they dont have mega factory farms and processing centers like we do.

On a more serious note from my previous post (although I still consider it valid), looking at Velfarre's post I have to ask; do you have pets (cat or dog specifically)?
And if so do you put them on vegan diets instead of the meat in a can diet that vets recommend you do, to shed them of immorality?

Certain pets such as dogs can be healthy on a vegan diet.  Other's like cat's are carnivorous.  I do not own pets other than a bird (lol he's vegan he eats seeds), but I would not feed my pets a vegan diet.  Dogs are omnivorous and I do not force my views on others with their consent (dogs can't say yes or no to being vegan).  In this case I would do as stated earlier...buying organic dog food.

I'd like to further add to Alec's point (READ CAREFULLY LASTLIFE) that human's digestive system isn't really designed for vegan food. Like, at all. It has been proven that only certain tribes living in the jungle had these necessary micro-organisms in their bowels which could intensify the digestation of vegetables. These are kind of things which herbivores has quite an amount inside. The only part that can digest vegetables in human's body is large intestine and it doesn't do it very well.

So yeah, while it takes much vegetables to make a steak, it would take EVEN MORE (multiple amount) to feed a human with vegetables. When you add to this that you have to figure out a way to supply the necessary vitamins, ferums and whatnot that you usually get from meat... yeah, there is a treshold for being a vegan, not to mention that it is not just a realistic option to make everyone in the Earth a vegan: we would run out of food very quickly. Like Marmot said (never knew about that, btw, interesting), is an option only open to Western middle-class people right now.

In my opinion, a balanced diet between meat and vegetables is the best for health rather than a vegetarian food only.

Hahaha humans digestive system wasn't meant for vegetables?  What?  Every vitamin/mineral you get from meat can be obtained via a non animal source.  How would we run out of food?  There is food everywhere?  Look out in your yard, I'm pretty sure over half the plants in your neighborhood are edible in some way. 

Puppy "factories" are pretty sick, though. I know it hasn't got anything to do with eating meat, but while we're on the subject of mistreating animals. Cows and pigs, etc. -- we've got so many, what else to do than to eat them? If we don't, there could be overpopulation or something? And then we'd need hunters to kill them.. But not eat them.. And entirely stopping with eating meat is ridiculous. It's healthy.

Again, supply and demand.  Also puppy mills are horrible never buy your pets from an actual pet store.

Killing a human being is immoral. Eating a human being is immoral. Killing anything when there is an option around it is immoral. Killing an animal needlessly is immoral. Is eating meat immoral? Let's fully debate the morality of carnivores.

There are so many different things that can come to mind to negate your sentence. The fact that killing can be merciful, would you let a dog slowy and painfully die because you think killing or extinguishing life is immoral?

How about if you are eating an animal based off of your instinct for survival, is it wrong to kill to survive?

There are cases of cannibalism that are set off of people trying to survive in a wilderness that lacks any type of food, they try to eat the dirt, and try to eat the bark but they need the protein and energy that even human meat does provide.

You need to justify what it is exactly your trying to say is in fact the immoral part of eating meat.

If it's roadkill meat or the animal died of natural causes I don't think it's "immoral". There are people who only eat roadkill, so I think, if you want and like to eat meat (not my case) and doesn't like the idea of animals living in farms like prisoners and then being slaughtered eating roadkill is what you should do. Because then it would be just like their natural cycle of life. They lived free and died free.

I'm not joking. There are several books teaching how to prepare/cook roadkill.

I dont know if this is so true in the United States. If it were we could eat raw bacon and undercooked meat without fear of getting any sort of food-born illness, where in someplace such as Germany they dont have these problems because they dont have mega factory farms and processing centers like we do.

I said very clean, not sterile. It is pretty unreasonable to expect any sort of food to be entirely free from all sorts of bacteria and such without it being sterilized first.

Anyway, the law in most parts of the world, including America is that slaughter houses HAVE to follow very strict rules when it comes to slaughtering animals. People watch the process from start to finish to make sure it is "humane", and pretty much every single part of the animal is tested before any part of it is put to use. The carcasses have to be displayed in a way that makes them easy to inspect (cow heads have to be displayed in a way that makes it possible to see into the back of the throat for example) and samples of all parts of the animal (meat, bone, skin, blood, intestines, stomach and so on) are taken and tested before any part of the animal can actually be used.
Even in large factories all of these have to be followed. Any slaughter house that doesn't follow these laws is like I said probably some sort of illegal operation and chances are you'll never eat meat from a place like this anyway. That or the slaughter house is in some less developed country.

The videos you might have seen of animal cruelty, blood stained buildings littered with gore and whatever else are nothing at all like your average slaughter house. (It might seem strange, but in your average slaughter house it is pretty rare to even see blood).

What about coconut water, yugi? How do you sterelize it? As shepperd would say, I guess we have a contradiction here!

What about coconut water, yugi? How do you sterilize it? As shepperd would say, I guess we have a contradiction here!

You boil it. Seriously though, what does coconut water have to do with anything?

It has to do that nobody sterilizes coconut water before drinking it but I wonder if there is anything living in it?

It is pretty unreasonable to expect any sort of food to be entirely free from all sorts of bacteria and such without it being sterilized first.

It has to do that nobody sterilizes coconut water before drinking it but I wonder if there is anything living in it?

quit trolling/derailing the topic, damn.

inri cheetos 

There are so many different things that can come to mind to negate your sentence. The fact that killing can be merciful, would you let a dog slowy and painfully die because you think killing or extinguishing life is immoral?

How about if you are eating an animal based off of your instinct for survival, is it wrong to kill to survive?

There are cases of cannibalism that are set off of people trying to survive in a wilderness that lacks any type of food, they try to eat the dirt, and try to eat the bark but they need the protein and energy that even human meat does provide.

You need to justify what it is exactly your trying to say is in fact the immoral part of eating meat.

I totally agree with this. We've always eaten meat and just because people learned how to communicate and got smarter doesn't
mean that we suddenly should become some leaf-eating pandas. Now sure, it's kinda disgusting thinking about the factories where
they make the meat, but some things are better not to think about nowadays anyway.

Also I'm no master at this. Vegans don't eat eggs nor drink milk, right? Why?

Also NO2. Above sounded kinda harsh, but I really don't give a damn about what you eat as long as you're pleased with yourself.

If it's unfertilized it's not chicken yet. This is like saying menstruation is the same as expelling unfertilized people. But I don't like eggs either.

Also I'm no master at this. Vegans don't eat eggs nor drink milk, right? Why?

Drinking milk from another species or drinking mother's milk after being weaned is unnatural.  No other animal does this so why should we?

Apart from that milk and eggs come from an animal.  Vegans don't consume or use anything from an animal.  I feel it's wrong to take something from an animal without their consent.  Also, milk is used by the animal so it is wrong to take something that was (or I should say SHOULD) be used by them.  Also yeah the eggs we eat aren't fertilized, but they are basically chicken periods.

We've always eaten meat and just because people learned how to communicate and got smarter doesn't
mean that we suddenly should become some leaf-eating pandas.

We've always murdered and started wars doesn't mean we still should...lol

Honestly Doktormartini you post and post your stupid vegan stuff all the time with the stupidest arguments to everything. You are so obsessed with being so natural with your vegan stuff then stop using a computer, stop using a house stop using anything that we have developed because it is unnatural. We have these brains because of the meat we have eaten over the time we have evolved, and everything that has been invented is because of this ENEMY MUST NOT EAT MEAT

go away already

edit:

sorry about this post i guess I have just gotten fed up with arguing with him many times before about the same subject and he never listens

Our brains got this evolved because we eat meat?  Meat has to do with the evolution of our brain?

  You imagine lactating not because it's your body's time to lactate, but because you've been pumped full of hormones that allow you to continue lactating after you've birthed and weaned. 

My neighbor was a dairy farmer and not once did he ever use hormones to get his cows to produce milk.  In fact most dairy farmers prefer to do it the regular way of getting their cows pregnant once a year.  This is preferable for a very good reason.  They get a new calf out of it which they can use for extra income or to replace an older cow.

 

Our brains got this evolved because we eat meat?  Meat has to do with the evolution of our brain?

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html

There are tons of studies on the subject. 

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html

There are tons of studies on the subject. 

I see.  I've always agreed that meat eating was essential for survival.  I didn't know for evolution though (evolution and survival aren't the same correct?).

The fact is that it is not essential in todays civilized world and can be done.



I was gonna make a response to pseudo-emo's other comment but it had more to do with environmentalism than veganism.

evolution isnt triggered by "meat-eating" - its not like the nutrients of the meat accumulate through generations. that reminds me of lysenko.

evolution is triggered by a bunch of random alleles coupled with natural selection.  we arent meant to act in a certain way in the way goddamn doktormartini says we should "all be natural"" because that pressupposes that there is a god that designed us to act in a certain way. our bodies have certain phenotypes because that is how generally we survive better, but if our behavior changes because of technology we are going to evolve in a different way.

meat-eating is not essential in industrial civilization but a lot of things harmful to animals and the enviroment arent "necessary" (like the internet) for survival. as i said the vegan argument is stupid and if you dont want to harm mammals you should move to a cave