Topic: Observed major evolution occurs for the first time (Read 8406 times)

  • Avatar of Ryan
  • thx ds k?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2003
  • Posts: 4460
Quote from: Bactera make major evolutionary shift in the lab
A major evolutionary innovation has unfurled right in front of researchers' eyes. It's the first time evolution has been caught in the act of making such a rare and complex new trait.

And because the species in question is a bacterium, scientists have been able to replay history to show how this evolutionary novelty grew from the accumulation of unpredictable, chance events.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html


So for the first time, evolution on a major scale has been observed and confirmed in a lab environment. This kind of blows a huge hole in the creationism arguments! So yeah, discuss how silly creationists must feel now and how cool this is!
  • Avatar of `~congresman Ron paul~~
  • Legio Morbidius
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jan 18, 2006
  • Posts: 2653
it was god intervening i swear

i mean i talk to him directly he told me what's the deal

That’s right, you have the young gaming with the old(er), white people gaming with black people, men and women, Asian countries gaming with the EU, North Americans gaming with South Americans. Much like world sporting events like the Wolrd Cup, or the Olympics will bring together different nations in friendly competition, (note the recent Asian Cup; Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia, no violence there) we come together. The differences being, we are not divided by our nationalities and we do it 24-7, and on a personal level.

We are a community without borders and without colours, the spirit and diversity of the gaming community is one that should be looked up to, a spirit and diversity other groups should strive toward.
  • Avatar of headphonics
  • sea of vodka
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 24, 2003
  • Posts: 6432
you know i found out a few months ago to my ABJECT HORROR that my mom was a creationist for some inexplicable reason (she's not even religious i don't get it!!!) and ever since then i've periodically wondered how she does it.  i mean the entire argument is more or less just HEH ITS JUST A RTHEORY for most people and beyond the fact that that's bullshit, there's just SCADS of empirical evidence and now this, but you know that it will somehow get rationalized or dismissed nonetheless.

this is very cool shit, though!  it's not like my opinions on this shit needed reinforced but if they did, this definitely would've done it!
  • asdfg!
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 15, 2006
  • Posts: 419
Maybe I'm just being dumb because it's late and I'm tired, but what do we gain from this, other than the fact that creationists are wrong, which we already knew?
  • Avatar of Ryan
  • thx ds k?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2003
  • Posts: 4460
they have samples from every generation of bacteria, letting them replay the history from any generation of their choosing, allowing them to find out exactly what caused the evolution to take place.

also it's a HISTORICAL FIRST.
  • Avatar of GZ
  • Gythol Granditti will be out "soon". Honest.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jan 16, 2003
  • Posts: 789
correct me if i am wrong but don't some creationists (i am unsure how many) believe in evolution? basically doesn't this only apply to the people who believe the earth is roughly 10,000 years old? granted there are quite a few people like this, but it's my understanding you can believe some kind of god had a part in creating the universe as well as evolution.
  • Avatar of headphonics
  • sea of vodka
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 24, 2003
  • Posts: 6432
correct me if i am wrong but don't some creationists (i am unsure how many) believe in evolution? basically doesn't this only apply to the people who believe the earth is roughly 10,000 years old? granted there are quite a few people like this, but it's my understanding you can believe some kind of god had a part in creating the universe as well as evolution.
no you're right i think but idk from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE if nothing else, most people who identify themselves as creationists are the kind who think of evolution as creationism as mutual exclusives.  maybe it's different with others though!
  • Avatar of Ryan
  • thx ds k?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2003
  • Posts: 4460
correct me if i am wrong but don't some creationists (i am unsure how many) believe in evolution? basically doesn't this only apply to the people who believe the earth is roughly 10,000 years old? granted there are quite a few people like this, but it's my understanding you can believe some kind of god had a part in creating the universe as well as evolution.

Quote
Creationism is a religious belief that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe were created in their original form by a deity (often the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) or deities, whose existence is presupposed.[1] In relation to the creation-evolution controversy the term creationism (or strict creationism) is commonly used to refer to religiously-motivated rejection of evolution.

so i guess the true creationism is total rejection of evolution! i know a ton of people who kind of toe the line with "i believe god created evolution" or something
  • Avatar of crone_lover720
  • PEW PEW PEW
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 25, 2002
  • Posts: 5554
This is actually kind of frustrating, because if you've ever taken a class that really breaks down genetics and evolution it's like NO SHIT WE KNEW DIS

Which is also why it's not that huge of a blow to intelligent design dicks. There are the ID people that are just so out of it that they know nothing about science or evolution, so probably this wouldn't affect them. Then there are the huge jackasses who understand evolution and the fact that this shit can and always will happen given the necessary rules apply to the population, but they still insist that design must have occured in the past and that this is science. so they won't care either, they'll just be sitting back stroking their philosopher's beards smugly and muttering "heh, this proves nothing"

wait what's the difference between ID and creationism I forget?

edit: tuned down my insults for you folks.
  • Avatar of Ryan
  • thx ds k?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2003
  • Posts: 4460
iirc ID is just the belief that the universe was created by an intelligent being. i'm probably wrong, though!

edit: oh nvm haha

Quote
Intelligent design is the assertion that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection".[1][2] It is a modern form of the traditional teleological argument for the existence of God, modified to avoid specifying the nature or identity of the designer to avoid a United States court ruling prohibiting the teaching of creationism as science.

it's basically creationism just without the specific god reference
  • Avatar of Pulits
  • I'm a hairy, slutty and drunk Mexican!
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Jun 16, 2002
  • Posts: 438
I don't know if you guys but I find this morbidly amazing. :D
"I think EVERYONE here on GW has to have cranked one out over Pulits or Trujin before. How's it feel, guys?" - Christophomicus <--Feels great, btw.
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Apr 18, 2008
  • Posts: 75
Until they record a bacterium evolving into a human, something random like that can't prove that creationism is wrong. It's just a poke in the eye, or however the article stated it. I still think it's pretty much bullshit. Humans just HAPPENED to be like the only species to evolve into intelligent beings. You'd think that over time all creatures would become uber-animals, according to the evolution theory. Maybe in 10.000 years we'll see giraffe-humans and bigass elephants with shark jaws. Right. Both theories can't actually be proven. Like, ever. Unless they find a way to "speed" up evolution, but then it would still be under different circumstances and such so you couldn't bring REAL proof. Science != fact. It's such a hype nowadays to be anti-creationism though. Didn't the anti-creationism start with people wanting to think for themselves? Now they all just follow the herd instead of thinking about it. School books are horribly anti-creationistic as well. I mean, you COULD just state facts about research on evolution AND creationism. Instead of dedicated, what, one page to creationism and every 5 sentences say that it's wrong? I mean wtf, make it neutral. *flashbacks of WWII Germany propaganda* But then again history classes over here is pro-the Netherlands and pro-Europe too, so whatever.

@ ^: Yea, you can't believe in creationism and evolution. But you can believe in evolution and religion. Like that God caused the Big Bang and steered everything to create DNA and such. I personally don't prefer creationism over evolution, or visa versa. Obviously evolution exists in some form or another, but it remains to be seen if a simple life form like a bacterium can actually become a full grown animal. =)
Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 06:34:14 am by Twin Matrix
  • Avatar of Ryan
  • thx ds k?
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Oct 22, 2003
  • Posts: 4460
  • Avatar of headphonics
  • sea of vodka
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 24, 2003
  • Posts: 6432
well it probably has something to do with the fact that you can't research a fucking fairy tale and also if you don't think this is proof that evolution EXISTS (i.e. it JUST FUCKING HAPPENED) then i don't know what to tell you but BOY your post was certainly fun to read!
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Apr 18, 2008
  • Posts: 75
^

Did you read the second half of my post at all?

Quote
Obviously evolution exists in some form or another, but it remains to be seen if a simple life form like a bacterium can actually become a full grown animal. =)

This doesn't proof that everything evolved into the way it is now. There could other theories that haven't been discovered yet.

@Ryan: lol grow up
  • Avatar of crone_lover720
  • PEW PEW PEW
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Mar 25, 2002
  • Posts: 5554
lmao twin matrix is here, sup

iirc ID is just the belief that the universe was created by an intelligent being. i'm probably wrong, though!

edit: oh nvm haha

it's basically creationism just without the specific god reference
oh yeah, this makes sense then. the people I know of who support ID and call themselves scientists don't deny that evolution can happen, they just think a lot of facets of life were designed at some point. like there's a lot of really complex shit in simple lifeforms that we can't explain, but to go ahead and assume it implies design is such a weird thing for a scientist to do, you basically destroy your sci-cred
  • Avatar of headphonics
  • sea of vodka
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Dec 24, 2003
  • Posts: 6432
yes that's a good point only small-scale evolution exists and instead of the same exact process occurring on a larger scale over a much longer period of time, some guy in the sky made everything

  • Comrade!
  • PipPip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Jan 30, 2004
  • Posts: 278
Science != fact. I mean, you COULD just state facts about research on evolution AND creationism.
Science != fact. I mean, you COULD just state facts about research on evolution AND creationism.
Science != fact. I mean, you COULD just state facts about research on evolution AND creationism.
Science != fact. I mean, you COULD just state facts about research on evolution AND creationism.
Science != fact. I mean, you COULD just state facts about research on evolution AND creationism.
  • Avatar of losc
  • Also known as Pinecone
  • Pip
  • Group: Member
  • Joined: Aug 9, 2005
  • Posts: 177
Alot of creationists use completely backwards logic and don't believe in science period so this discovery isn't going to affect them very much, these are usually the people that really piss me off with their stupidity so this really only shows something I already knew to be true.
  • Avatar of Marmot
  • i can sell you my body
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Premium Member
  • Joined: Apr 14, 2004
  • Posts: 1243
hey guys lets put this in context remember that twinmatrix hates black people for some reason.

i always wondered why racism and creationism always go hand in hand
-