Ok, I'm going to do the topic a bit different to the format I used last week. I'll probably change it slightly every week 'till I get one that works well. Anyway, this week's genre is Post-Punk. Enjoy!

Post-Punk

An Introduction:

Era: Late '70s - Early '80s.
Origin: Punk of the late '70s.
Style: More adventurous and artsy form of Punk, with inspiration from synth, dub and disco.

   Post-Punk basically originated in the late '70s, during the "Punk Revolution". It took the raw, gritty, stripped down sound of Punk and added elements of Krautrock, Dub and even Disco to create a more experimental and artsy sound.

Defining Bands:

Joy Division

   Joy Division were formed in 1977, right at the height of the Punk Revolution. Although they stared very much as a Punk band (under the name Warsaw, even supporting The Buzzcocks) they soon created their own sound by taking Punk, slowing it down and concentrating on mood and expression instead of anger. They also introduced synthesizers into their sound and combining these with the haunting lyrics of Ian Curtis, Post-Punk was born.

Key Albums:

Unkown Pleasures [1979] Key Tracks: Disorder New Dawn Fades She's Lost Control	Closer [1980] Key Tracks: Isolation Heart and Soul Twenty Four Hours

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     The key tracks up there are from allmusic but, in my opinion, they're all superb. Both albums have a full tracklist of superb Post-Punk songs, and I think choosing the best would be extremely difficult. If you're looking at that wondering why "Love Will Tear Us Apart" is missing, it's because it was never released until 1988 when it was included in the singles compilation, Substance. The album Closer was actually released posthumously after the lead singer, Ian Curtis, committed suicide just before their first US tour and the song was only recorded two months before his death.


Wire

     The next band I have chosen were just as crucial to the Post-Punk movement of the late '70s. They are actually still around today, and have been sporadically together over the years, but it's their first time together that produced the best music. They released three albums in 1977, '78 and '79 and these are the only albums I will recommend to you. They split up after the third album due to a lack of creativity, but you can understand when you listen to the first three albums how they could run out.

Key Albums:

Pink Flags [1977] Key Tracks: Three Girl Rhumba Lowdown Pink Flag Strange 12 X U	Chairs Missing [1978] Key Tracks: Practise Makes Perfect Another the Letter Outdoor Miner I Am the Fly	154 [1979] Key Tracks: I Should Have Known Better Map Ref. 41 °N 93° W

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   Although keeping a lot of the elements that made Punk successful, they experimented with the ones that did not. Quite willingly throwing away the stale song structure of Punk, they evolved the sound over those three albums tremendously creating a brand new sound each time. I would thoroughly recommend you listen to those albums in chronological order as it's awesome to follow their reinventions and experiments.

Gang of Four!

As you may have guessed already, Gang of Four kept the political theme of Punk, as well as keeping the energy and fury. It was their very minimalist and experimental sound which kept them apart from the mainstream Punk of the day. Formed in 1977 (there's a theme here), they mixed in funk and dub which produced some very rythmic and melodic results, as well as keeping a very minimalist attitude, e.g. sometimes instead of playing solos, the guitarist would just stop, leaving just silence on the track.

Key Albums:

Entertainment! [1979] Key Tracks: Ether Damaged Goods At Home He's a Tourist Anthrax	Solid Gold [1981] Key Tracks: Paralysed What We All Want Outside the Trains Don't Run on Time Cheeseburger

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The lyrics are very political, about the social and economic ills of the time: the "celebrity" status that some people were awarded with and the loss of identity associated with an overbearing government. But they would also foray into love and romance in some of the songs, although I think a music journalists' description of this is better than anything I can do:
   Critic Stewart Mason has called "Love Like Anthrax" not only the group's "most notorious song" but also "one of the most unique and interesting songs of its time". It's also a good example of Gang of Four's social perspective: after a minute-long, droning, feedback-laced guitar intro, the rhythm section sets up a funky, churning beat, and the guitar drops out entirely. In one stereo channel, King sings a "post-punk anti-love song", comparing himself to a beetle trapped on its back ("and there's no way for me to get up") and equating love with "a case of anthrax, and that's some thing I don't want to catch." Meanwhile, in the other stereo channel (and slightly less prominent in the mix), Gill reads a deadpan monograph about public perception of love and the prevalence of love songs in popular music: "Love crops up quite a lot as something to sing about, 'cause most groups make most of their songs about falling in love, or how happy they are to be in love, and you occasionally wonder why these groups do sing about it all the time." The simultaneous vocals are rather disorienting, especially when Gill pauses in his examination of love songs to echo a few of King's sung lines.


The Cure

The Cure have quite a large discography, and not all of it is Post-Punk, but I've included my three favourite Cure albums in here because they retain the Post-Punk sound in pretty much all of their work, even though they might experiment with it ruthlessly, sometimes wandering into New Wave. Anyway, they released their first album in 1979, although the album up there "Boys Don't Cry" is essentially the same album, except a UK release with the eponymous song added to it and one or two others added/removed. There's very little difference anyway, just incase you did some searching and didn't know what I was talking about.

Key Albums:

Boys Don't Cry [1980] Key Tracks: Boys Don't Cry 10:15 Saturday Night Jumping Someone Else's Train Killing an Arab	The Head on the Door [1985] Key Tracks: In Between Days Push Close to Me Night Like This	Disintegration [1989] Key Tracks: Pictures of You Love Song Lullaby Fascination Street

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The Cure's changed greatly over their long-spanning career, and although starting with a very rough, jagged sound, they eventually experimented with synthesizers and different guitar sounds (they are very much credited with the creation of Goth Rock) and by the time they had released the other two albums on my list, they had moved into a more Alt-Rock/Pop sound in a bid to get away from their reputation for gloom. But don't let that discourage you, they are both excellent albums and The Cure are one of my favourite bands. Definitely the most experimental of the four bands I've mentioned.

Other Bands:

Other bands that I didn't mention for various reasons, but I think you should still check out are:

Band - Recommended Albums

The Fall - The Wonderful and Frightening World of the Fall; This Nation's Saving Grace
Siouxsie and the Banshees - Kaleidoscope; Hyaena; Tinderbox
Mission of Burma - Vs.; Onoffon; The Obliterati
Talking Heads - Try anything, especially their early stuff, as they don't have any real Post-Punk albums but are awesome nonetheless.

Ok, so there are a lot of bands I could've mentioned, and some I probably should've but then there would be nothing to discuss. And I'm not an expert, I just enjoy these bands I've mentioned a lot. So say what you liked, disliked, what should be added/removed. You know the score anyway, there's a lot of these topics about now. Just discuss.

Technically speaking Post-punk started after the death of the Sex Pistols, I'd say year 1979.

Basically punk had 2 generations or waves.
The first wave is the nihilist, apocalyptic and anarchic punk by excellence. This punk started in 1975 and ended in 1979.
This punk began as a result of the economic recession in the UK, which lead to a structural increase in the unemployment rate. The persistence of unemployment affected mainly the labour class youth. They found themselves bitter and fatalistic of this situation, and music of the time didn't reflect their hopelessness about their status and their future.
In this context, McLaren and the Sex Pistols were meant to be the voice of the labour class youth. Sex Pistols were the punk band by excellence, their main themes were NO FUTURE, BOREDOM, VACANCY and ANARCHY. Note the complete contrast between boredom and anarchy. Then there was The Clash, with songs like London Calling, describing apocalyptic england and Lost In The Supermarket, describing the vacuum effect of capitalism's spectacular consumption. However this album, released in December '79, was the album that announced the birth of the second wave.
This first punk supposed to movilize the lower classes to show themselves up against the accommodated classes. The second wave had more to do with the values of authenticity. Had a lot of politics in it but was less radical than Sex Pistol's apocalypticism. They'd hold strong to the DIY spirit but their music started to evolve into something more cerebral than numb.
Most people that diss punk, they think punk is just that first wave (or Corporate pop punk, which is even worse). When we think of PUNK IS DEAD, we refer to that first wave, but I dare say this second wave of punk is still alive and everywhere and in very different forms.

so
back to topic, post-punk to me is one form of 2nd wave punk where the punk energy is shown not in the violence, in the aggresion, but in more cerebral songs which focus mainly on the intense tension of the sounds and song structure.

Every band you've listed is like the best band ever. Especially Mission of Burma.

Also see: The Pop Group, XTC, The Birthday Party and Pere Ubu.

Well I have to say, you've educated me Shep! That was one of the most interesting posts I've read in a long time on here. That is what a discussion should be like.

Thanks, and I agree with what you said, but the style of Post-Punk was around in '77. There are a lot of albums released in 77-79 that are Post-Punk.

Guys, it's a shame you don't see it but this is the reason while the Music Forum has gone downhill. Lately we've been trying to save it but it seems that the effort goes nowhere. This topic is one case. Capitano makes a neat introduction to post-punk to open dialogue, and I contribute with basic and essential (and very synthetic) lesson about punk history, but then, the topic doesn't deliver.

These are times when I hope there is some other alter-"Shep" that would argue against or open up some polemics or contribute with some rad opinions to let some discussion flow.
But this is depressing y'know.
I had fun in the 2 prog topics, and I'm not having fun right now.
C'mon guys, guys, guys.

I was actually thinking of stopping these topics. I put a lot of effort into that topic, quite a few hours actually, and few people respond.

The same went for thecatamites No-Wave topic. Just no interaction, admittedly I didn't post either, but it's a shame as I'm sure he put a lot of effort into his topics as well.

Yeah, that’s basically the reason I hadn’t posted in this topic… I couldn’t think of anything to add besides “postpunk rules, here’s more bands”. The trouble is that unless someone comes in and starts arguing the other side or whatever, it’s kind of hard to have an actual discussion on things.

I will say, though, (devil's advocate ahoy) that I find a lot of postpunk to be incredibly starchy and dull, particularly the British stuff. Groups like the Pop Group, the Flying Lizards, Wire's later stuff, and especially fucking Scritti Politti always felt to me to be really sterile and stiff... An awkward mix of cultural tourism (suburban white kids play dub and reggae, whoo!), hectoring socialist polemic, and boring music. And I say the music is boring because it sounds like an afterthought to all the fucking artsy posturing that was going on, a grabbag of Kafka-referencing-lyrics, repetitive dance beats, detached synths and spiky chords with no real heart to the whole thing at all. The best postpunk bands were those who took the energy and passion and irreverent spirit of punk and ran with it, like the Fall or the Birthday Party, but most of these guys sound like they're deliberately distancing themselves from all the things that made punk so good in the first place. Don't make fun, fucked-up music, because otherwise you'll be a populist bourgeoise sellout: the only acceptable style is dry, stiff, cerebral, detached from anything as coarse as 'heart' or 'humour', with the occasional pop hook thrown in because it's so ironic. So yeah, while there were many, many postpunk bands I love (namechecks: Magazine, Swell Maps, the Sound), and even though I actually like some of the bands I mentioned above, overall there's this awkward kind of humourless po-facedness to a lot of postpunk that stops it from affecting me in the same way that other music does.

EDIT: ps this was a good article and it would suck if you stopped writing them. I'm not sure how much time they take out of your schedule or whatever, but I actively look forward to your stuff and it'd suck if you had to stop due to lack of replies!