Attention The laughs are over: Jack Thompson has been disbarred, forever. (Read 2726 times)

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ummm.......video games are our RIGHT. everyone deserves games.
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man it's not just because people didnt grow up with video games.  these people have all more or less grown up with television and movies and they still put a pretty big amount of effort into complaining about that, too.  you're looking at these big struggles they don't get anywhere on and don't seem to be acknowledging all the tiny things that they influence on a daily basis that are less drastic than NO MORE COMICS.  like seriously they achieve a lot dude, but not if you only pay attention to the stupid little battles they don't win.  religious groups tend to exert a pretty decent influence over just media in general so brushing off some video game struggle seems kind of absurd, because it's the same people you're fighting really, and those people have a pretty noticeable effect on things here (for the worse)

i mean whatever this is pointless, because you just do not seem to agree that religious groups have any amount of influence on mainstream media and i think they do, but you really play this ANTIVIDEOGAME thing up a lot and it doesnt even seem like a troll.  you kind of sound like some coal miner who's yelling at his son who's into music to go learn a real trade

also you know i'm capable of worrying about more than one thing.  the fact that i care about jack thompson to some small extent because of the larger problem he represents doesn't mean i tune everything else out.
Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 10:09:43 am by headphonics
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nobody who mattered gave a shit about jack thompson. the only people who payed any attention to him at all were idiots who take video games way too seriously.
im pretty sure hillary clinton officially backed him up
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a lot of people backed him up til he went really crazy towards the end of the disbarring case (gay porn). He had support from Fox News which whether you like it or not is still a really popular news channel that a huge bunch of idiots will believe anything from (Mass effect has full frontal nudity or w/e anyone? yeah people believed it.), and it's pretty short sighted to me to say that only the HARDCORE GAMER cares about this guy when the stuff he is saying is getting through to the casual gamer who in general just so happens to be the majority dumb American who seems to take a lot as true just because a news outlet says it is. He nearly had a company ruined, and that's a company of 2,000 people. Jesus man, that's my entire town! He could have had my entire town fired and searching for a new job and shut down. He wouldn't be so bad and I could at least vaguely respect the guy, if he wasn't using lies all the time to get anywhere, and the media REPORTING these lies as truth because they are completely dumb. It's like OBAMA IS A MUSLIM. you can't tell me there isn't a TON of Americans out there who believe it. a lot of people are just stupid like that, and that's where JT really won his battles at, is at the stupid American level, which either way is still a part of the demographic for the casual "emergent" gamer that is getting into it. A really big part. These are the older adults who never gave it a try or thought it was stupid! And this man has a chance to warp what they think, because they'll believe him because he was on FOX NEWS, and even if he is completely dumb that is still a very terrible thing. this isn't like religious zealots DEMONIZING POKEMON AND DUNGEONS AND DRAGONZ or COMIC BOOK FANS because the last 2 are niche markets still, and the first 1 was given up on and really the people still doing it probably hate homosexuals too and everything else on the planet. but yeah, most of them are niche markets (just talking about D&D and Comics), gaming is no longer really this niche market thing at all. More people are getting into gaming in 08 than before, even when Space Invaders caused a problem in Japan with 100 yen coins! It's becoming an acceptable industry upon the masses like film and music, and with more people, there needs to more real media checking on the legitness of stories because as more people join the industry as consumers, idiots like JT get a lot more power going.

Honestly, you say that only these RABID HARDCORE GAMERS care about things NO ONE IN REAL WORLD CARES ABOUT (getting fired/censoring media, who cares about this???) and that EVERYONE KNOWS HE'S A JOKE, but I sure would like to know how the non-gamers know he is a joke? Really it's those very same RABID HARDCORE GAMERS who know he is a joke (besides the disbarring now, of course.), no one outside of gaming does, and that's the problem!
Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 05:48:46 am by HL
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Freedom Gamers Unite
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but you really play this ANTIVIDEOGAME thing up a lot and it doesnt even seem like a troll.  you kind of sound like some coal miner who's yelling at his son who's into music to go learn a real trade
probably not a terrible way of looking at it. the vast majority of people who make games fucking suck at it and should probably pursue a career closer to their intellectual capabilities(such as janitor or fluffer)

i would have much more of a problem with censorship and civic uprising regarding the content of video games if game designers did ANYTHING EVER to show that their creative content was worth protecting. sure, thompson is a sensationalist shithead, but i can't say that i was ever particularly upset to see him target ROCKSTAR or some equally worthless game company. the thought that people actually held up manhunt and said FREEDOM OF SPEECH makes you wish somebody did a better job defining the concept
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well, i hate most gamers, too.  they're shitheads and all that but it just seems like he has an inordinate amount of hate for them even going beyond the fact that they're irritating as hell.  it is like there has been some traumatic experience in his past involving gamers.

anyway, i do not think you can pick and choose about thing you champions in the name of freedom of speech.  it's not like this is some grand struggle or anything, but it should all-applicable; that's the point!  even if stuff like manhunt is really shallow and just worthless beyond STAB THIS GUY IN THE CORNEA WITH A BALLPOINT PEN, i can't really make myself not care about it.  it's not like i care about manhunt existing so much as i think it's pretty obviously within their rights to make, garbage or not.  like i think the concept is reasonably well defined as it is! i feel like it shouldn't matter whatsoever what you're defending because it's universal and it wouldn't work if rockstar's overly violent, stupid games had any less than something legitimately worthwhile.  it would be infinitely overbearing if it didn't apply to almost absolutely everything, i think.

i mean maybe i am misinterpreting what you're saying but aside from its literal meaning, i wouldn't even be too comfortable with any person ascribing some arbitrary standards of what freedom of speech is.
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also uh...they have succeeded in the past. the parental advisory stickers on cds used to not be there.

granted it's not much of a loss but to say they haven't had an impact in the past isn't true.

also they decimated comics when they were up on the chopping block. took years before violence could be in comics again.
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a lot of people backed him up til he went really crazy towards the end of the disbarring case (gay porn). He had support from Fox News which whether you like it or not is still a really popular news channel that a huge bunch of idiots will believe anything from (Mass effect has full frontal nudity or w/e anyone? yeah people believed it.), and it's pretty short sighted to me to say that only the HARDCORE GAMER cares about this guy when the stuff he is saying is getting through to the casual gamer who in general just so happens to be the majority dumb American who seems to take a lot as true just because a news outlet says it is. He nearly had a company ruined, and that's a company of 2,000 people. Jesus man, that's my entire town! He could have had my entire town fired and searching for a new job and shut down. He wouldn't be so bad and I could at least vaguely respect the guy, if he wasn't using lies all the time to get anywhere, and the media REPORTING these lies as truth because they are completely dumb. It's like OBAMA IS A MUSLIM. you can't tell me there isn't a TON of Americans out there who believe it. a lot of people are just stupid like that, and that's where JT really won his battles at, is at the stupid American level, which either way is still a part of the demographic for the casual "emergent" gamer that is getting into it. A really big part. These are the older adults who never gave it a try or thought it was stupid! And this man has a chance to warp what they think, because they'll believe him because he was on FOX NEWS, and even if he is completely dumb that is still a very terrible thing. this isn't like religious zealots DEMONIZING POKEMON AND DUNGEONS AND DRAGONZ or COMIC BOOK FANS because the last 2 are niche markets still, and the first 1 was given up on and really the people still doing it probably hate homosexuals too and everything else on the planet. but yeah, most of them are niche markets (just talking about D&D and Comics), gaming is no longer really this niche market thing at all. More people are getting into gaming in 08 than before, even when Space Invaders caused a problem in Japan with 100 yen coins! It's becoming an acceptable industry upon the masses like film and music, and with more people, there needs to more real media checking on the legitness of stories because as more people join the industry as consumers, idiots like JT get a lot more power going.

Honestly, you say that only these RABID HARDCORE GAMERS care about things NO ONE IN REAL WORLD CARES ABOUT (getting fired/censoring media, who cares about this???) and that EVERYONE KNOWS HE'S A JOKE, but I sure would like to know how the non-gamers know he is a joke? Really it's those very same RABID HARDCORE GAMERS who know he is a joke (besides the disbarring now, of course.), no one outside of gaming does, and that's the problem!

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yea that's totally true, they ruined comics for quite some time censorship wise. :(

the thing is is even if a lot of game designers suck, censoring one thing affects everything like it. you remove violence from comics because of a lot of bad ones, well that's good and all but you also just censored violence preventing someone elses idea that might have been PRETTY DAMN AWESOME in done in a good way because WELP VIOLENCE IS BAD.

I mean, I don't like Manhunt either obviously ok, it's a pretty stupid game, but when you say "No, you can't do that. That's too over the top, and if you do this, we're not going to let your game be sold." you're preventing that for every game. Maybe there's this really exceptional game with some kind of awesome deep meaning (ok use all the imagination you can to pretend this exists.) that does use a lot of violence on that level. They are going to get the same response, "No, you can't do that. That's too crazy and if you do this, we're not going to let your game be sold."

That's a terrible thing! Censorship in any way in mediums can be pretty dreadful, whether it's no violence, unable to have homosexual characters (I remember this in comics too!!!!!), no over the top violence, no drugs, or whatever the hell they want to censor. Because you're restricting people's ideas and that is kind of suck, especially if one that comes along with an actual purpose and meaning that would normally stand out from the rest is prevented from selling because apparently for some reason we're unable to sell any type of videogame to strictly adults. I wouldn't buy AO games, I doubt the legitimacy that any game developer could make an AO game that could give me some deep awesome meaning. But it's still the idea that, hey, yeah, you can do that, and not be prevented from selling your game in every single store in the nation.
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basically what im saying is that there's a very obvious pattern where new forms of entertainment/art are demonized by people who don't understand them and ultimately these people always lose or achieve something very little (like explicit lyrics warnings on rap cds) and there's no reason to really worry about any of it.

One man wrote a book called "Seduction of the Innocent" and completely changed American comic books forever.
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anyway, i do not think you can pick and choose about thing you champions in the name of freedom of speech.  it's not like this is some grand struggle or anything, but it should all-applicable; that's the point!  even if stuff like manhunt is really shallow and just worthless beyond STAB THIS GUY IN THE CORNEA WITH A BALLPOINT PEN, i can't really make myself not care about it.  it's not like i care about manhunt existing so much as i think it's pretty obviously within their rights to make, garbage or not.  like i think the concept is reasonably well defined as it is! i feel like it shouldn't matter whatsoever what you're defending because it's universal and it wouldn't work if rockstar's overly violent, stupid games had any less than something legitimately worthwhile.  it would be infinitely overbearing if it didn't apply to almost absolutely everything, i think.

i mean maybe i am misinterpreting what you're saying but aside from its literal meaning, i wouldn't even be too comfortable with any person ascribing some arbitrary standards of what freedom of speech is.
no, you understand me right and all i can really say is that it's just a difference of opinion. it's always been my belief that things fall beyond the grasp of freedom of speech that either have no intended redeeming value, or if the intended value of the work is something senselessly offensive or damaging. things like bigotry already are accepted as falling beyond the protection of freedom of speech, and it's my belief that completely aimless, overly graphic depictions of violence(murder for the sake of murder) in media doesn't deserve any more respect in this regard.

now, i'm not honestly advocating the REMOVAL of manhunt, and games of similar uselessness. i completely agree with you guys that i'm deathly afraid of the misinterpretation of that kind of precedent. but this does not change the fact that i would have no problem, on a purely ideological level, seeing the elimination of games/films/whatever that depict, for no genuine creative reason, murder for the sake of murder. i'm not about to defend some piece of shit like manhunt under the umbrella of freedom of speech, because i feel that would be a terribly disingenuous way of looking at the concept of expression.

well, i hate most gamers, too.  they're shitheads and all that but it just seems like he has an inordinate amount of hate for them even going beyond the fact that they're irritating as hell.  it is like there has been some traumatic experience in his past involving gamers.
come on now, are you honestly asserting that complete rejection of gamer culture is unhealthy? likening this stance to emotional scarring is as good as calling it emotionally unhealthy. i think that's a bit much, to be honest. i find it refreshing to see people that have absolute zero patience for the gaming status quo. again, that's just me.
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Sweet! Now that that bastard is gone, nothing is going to stop my diabolical plan to release 5 seperate "E rated" games that reveal illicit footage of a pornographic nature by entering the correct cheat code at the start menu.

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Seduction of the Innocent actually brought up some good points regarding how violent comic books were purposefully being marketed to children but whenever people get together in large groups their intelligence collectively lowers.  Wertham was completely against the Comics Code Authority and only wanted violent comics to be out of the newstands or carry warning labels but I swear whenever people find fault in themselves they go to EXTREME FUCKING MEASURES (like the self-censorship and destruction of a multi-million dollar business) to correct it.

Guys like Thompson with celebrity status are the kinds of people who incite mobs and appeal to courts.  Nobody liked Thompson but these kinds of people are dangerous.  If Hillary actually made it into the office and actually focused on the entertainment industry there's no telling what damage she could have done.

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come on now, are you honestly asserting that complete rejection of gamer culture is unhealthy? likening this stance to emotional scarring is as good as calling it emotionally unhealthy. i think that's a bit much, to be honest. i find it refreshing to see people that have absolute zero patience for the gaming status quo. again, that's just me.

There's obviously some prejudice behind the complete rejection of a specific culture.  I'm half disgusted at myself for comparing something like African Culture with Vidya Culture  (THE CAKE IS A LIE, LULZ) but how are we defining culture here?  People who partake in and enjoy virtual entertainment or people who spout out JRPG quotes in public, power leveling, and suck Gabe Newell's dick?

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Sweet! Now that that bastard is gone, nothing is going to stop my diabolical plan to release 5 seperate "E rated" games that reveal illicit footage of a pornographic nature by entering the correct cheat code at the start menu.

Check out a Genesis game called Rings of Power.
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Also I know you were joking but the ESRB would force you to change the rating and have copies redone like they did with SA. If it gets any publicity at all you can bet your ass they would!
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come on now, are you honestly asserting that complete rejection of gamer culture is unhealthy? likening this stance to emotional scarring is as good as calling it emotionally unhealthy. i think that's a bit much, to be honest. i find it refreshing to see people that have absolute zero patience for the gaming status quo. again, that's just me.
what?  no.  i'm not asserting that at all; rejection of gamer culture is completely healthy and it's something i think a lot of us (or at least a few of us) have ended up doing.  the point of the parallel was actually that he just seemed to have some deep-seeded, fundamental contempt of gamers that always throws me, like how when you see people who hate something THAT MUCH, a lot of the time it's the result of a specific event.  like when i say i hate gamers, i mean they're annoying and dumb.  when he says it is seems like he really legitimately hates THEM FAGGOT GAMERS.  maybe he's like me and just kind of comes off like he's really angry about shit he doesn't care about but i thought i'd take this related topic to clear up whether he actually felt that strongly about them, and where so much seething contempt would come from for something he calls inconsequential.  i'm not even the only one who's noticed that he really seems to just despise them.

anyway yeah i can't really help but see where you're coming from.  i wish sometimes that things like klan ralleys and other abominations weren't protected here by MULTIPLE AMMENDMENTS, and i think in certain european countries free speech stops at racial slurs and such.  but anti-racism is the trendy thing now and everyone hates racism, so at the moment yeah it'd be swell to turn that on those types of people, but i think it's hard to forget that a hundred or even fifty years ago people probably would've been okay with klan ralleys and i would probably have been the one not allowed to assemble.  i think it makes me kind of sympathetic with people, even if they're bastards, who happen to be on the receiving end of institutional disapproval.  forty or fifty years ago that was my dad and it was not fun at all!

like i dont disagree with you on any ideological level, i don't think; just a practical one.  if it was regulated, then it would be regulated BY SOMEONE, and the people who would control regulation don't have any history at all of moral soundness, or even moral consistency.  half a century ago they thought segregation was totally sweet so fuck them i don't trust their judgment at all and even if it means KLAN RALLIES fall under the umbrella too, i'd really prefer to keep control out of their grubby hands
Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 08:42:14 pm by headphonics
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alright that was pretty far off the topic but i thought it was kind of an interesting thing to talk about
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edit
Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 02:32:39 am by real_jamicus
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Poor ol' Jacky.
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I dunno in either case I think it's pretty disturbing that my primary form of entertainment as a kid now includes stuff like Manhunt

I'm surprised people our age aren't like weird fundamentalist video game people who want to go back to the good old days when games were all clean and nice - even the SNES Final Fantasy people don't really seem to give a shit
Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:56:36 pm by Ragnar
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