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#21 November 11, 2008, 05:03:20 am

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Canada's health care system is pretty good. But I can think of one reason why its so fucking bloated(And one reason why private health care can be good.) The greater cost of health care in private health care can really cause people to NOT go to the hospitial for stupid shit.

Seriously. Every time I've ever gone to the emergency room for myself or someone else I'd say half the people were there for stupid shit. Like small cuts. And feeling a little 'sick.' What a waste.

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Mama Luigi

#22 November 11, 2008, 06:07:04 am

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Quote from: Avatar on November 11, 2008, 05:03:20 am

Canada's health care system is pretty good. But I can think of one reason why its so fucking bloated(And one reason why private health care can be good.) The greater cost of health care in private health care can really cause people to NOT go to the hospitial for stupid shit.

Seriously. Every time I've ever gone to the emergency room for myself or someone else I'd say half the people were there for stupid shit. Like small cuts. And feeling a little 'sick.' What a waste.

Right... from the sounds of it, you were going to the emergency room so you bypassed any and all lines, right?

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#23 November 11, 2008, 06:14:01 am

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Quote

Right... from the sounds of it, you were going to the emergency room so you bypassed any and all lines, right

Uh...there are lines in the emergency rooms.
From it being clogged.
By people going there for stupid reasons.
Okay though.

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Boulvae

#24 November 11, 2008, 06:20:00 am

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Infact you have a better chance of getting treatment if your picked up by an ambulance. Some hospitals have really bad nurses that will completely ignore people in critical condition, and the provincial governments have been getting down on that and making those hospitals establish systems to stop that. People going in for stupid stuff because they're paranoid is a problem, there should be something inplace for minor things.

A tool is a tool regardless. I mean if you suck, you suck, and not even the most perfect tool could save you. And if your damn good then even with the worst tool ever conceived you could chug out some high quality shit.

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Ash

#25 November 11, 2008, 07:03:00 am

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There's actually a Hospital here in town that is specifically for minor issues. URGENT CARE CENTER or something like that. Basically anything that isn't MAJOR like a gunshot wound can be treated there, but it's only open 8am-10pm or something like that.

The best part though is the people with stupid problems usually go to the actual hospital so the urgent care center moves rather quickly.

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the_bub_from_the_pit

#26 November 11, 2008, 07:09:37 am

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Quote from: Mama Luigi on November 11, 2008, 06:07:04 am

Right... from the sounds of it, you were going to the emergency room so you bypassed any and all lines, right?

I know someone who had to wait 4 hours in the 'emergency room' for a giant rip in his lip that was producing an excruciating amount of pain and needed a lot of stitches. He had to sit beside another guy who broke his leg or something like that and the people with stupid reasons still got admitted before them.

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datamanc3r

#27 November 11, 2008, 07:52:53 am

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What I don't understand is why don't hospitals have a protocol of who to take care of first when viewing patients. Obviously, if a guy's bleeding profusely and convulsing on the floor in huge amounts of pain, he should be treated before the idiot who shot his gonads with an airsoft gun.

"I would be totally embarassed to write this, even as a fakepost. it's not funny except in how you seem to think it's good. look at all the redundancies, for fuck's sake. "insipid semantics, despicable mediocrity" ugh gross gross. I want to take a shower every time I read your prose." -Steel

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Boulvae

#28 November 11, 2008, 08:14:21 am

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A couple hospitals have proposed a neon wristband system, where different neon wristbands are given to those who check in. The colour indicates the severity, those with something minor are given one colour while those who need imediate attention get a different colour. Although someone bleeding profusely should get more attention then some guy with a back pain, but it doesn't work like that here.

A tool is a tool regardless. I mean if you suck, you suck, and not even the most perfect tool could save you. And if your damn good then even with the worst tool ever conceived you could chug out some high quality shit.

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Artis Leon Ivey Jr

#29 November 11, 2008, 03:47:42 pm

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Quote from: Juris on November 11, 2008, 07:52:53 am

What I don't understand is why don't hospitals have a protocol of who to take care of first when viewing patients. Obviously, if a guy's bleeding profusely and convulsing on the floor in huge amounts of pain, he should be treated before the idiot who shot his gonads with an airsoft gun.

gunshot victims or people in obvious immediate danger are immediately treated and in a lot of cases the money is taken from the taxpayers (I think that's in cases of if the person dies).

also derail and I know none of you chose this, but if you dont have health insurance, try and get some asap. if you can at all, sacrifice your entertainment budget or whatever for it. I had low risk factors for cancer other than a genetic one, and I got it, and the chemo treatment alone was without insurance around $32,000 dollars. and that's not including hospital stays, the surgery, the doctor checkup, the drugs, etc.

brian chemicals

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datamanc3r

#30 November 11, 2008, 05:01:45 pm

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This might be a little late, but I found it in my (crappy) evidence packet.

Quote

French system economically viable for the poor

Business Week, July 9, 2007, p. 98 The French Lesson in Health Care;

But the french system is much more generous to its entire population than the U.S. is to its seniors. Unlike with Medicare, there are no deductibles, just modest co- payments that are dismissed for the chronically ill. Additionally, almost all French buy supplemental insurance, similar to Medigap, which reduces their out-of-pocket costs and covers extra expenses such as private hospital rooms, eyeglasses, and dental care. In France, the sicker you get, the less you pay. Chronic diseases, such as diabetes, and critical surgeries, such as a coronary bypass, are reimbursed at 100%. Cancer patients are treated free of charge. Patients suffering from colon cancer, for instance, can receive Genentech Inc.'s Avastin without charge. In the U.S., a patient may pay $48,000 a year.

"I would be totally embarassed to write this, even as a fakepost. it's not funny except in how you seem to think it's good. look at all the redundancies, for fuck's sake. "insipid semantics, despicable mediocrity" ugh gross gross. I want to take a shower every time I read your prose." -Steel

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Mama Luigi

#31 November 11, 2008, 05:08:24 pm

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Quote from: Avatar on November 11, 2008, 06:14:01 am

Uh...there are lines in the emergency rooms.
From it being clogged.
By people going there for stupid reasons.
Okay though.

Quote from: FlowerPower on November 11, 2008, 07:09:37 am

I know someone who had to wait 4 hours in the 'emergency room' for a giant rip in his lip that was producing an excruciating amount of pain and needed a lot of stitches. He had to sit beside another guy who broke his leg or something like that and the people with stupid reasons still got admitted before them.

Where do you guys live then? I was reading this thing and it says that there are no waiting lines for people who are in dire need of care in Canada.

Quote

Indeed, while waiting lists certainly do exist for certain non-emergent procedures, it is not at all clear that the "waiting list crisis" that is so often talked about by the media and opponents of single payer actually exists.

Quote

A "waiting list" is a list that patients are enrolled in once they opt to pursue an elective procedure, assuming that they cannot get this procedure performed immediately. In Canada, waiting lists do NOT exist for emergency procedures.

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Boulvae

#32 November 11, 2008, 05:41:32 pm

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I live in Manitoba, and even if there isn't a waiting list for emergency procedures, theres still waiting because theres not a whole lot of man-power to handle everybody there.

A tool is a tool regardless. I mean if you suck, you suck, and not even the most perfect tool could save you. And if your damn good then even with the worst tool ever conceived you could chug out some high quality shit.

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Avatar

#33 November 12, 2008, 04:02:30 am

pwr 2 da ppl
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Quote

Where do you guys live then? I was reading this thing and it says that there are no waiting lines for people who are in dire need of care in Canada.

I wouldn't say I was in IMMEDIATE dire need but I was in pretty bad shape. By the time I got in there I was almost ready to pass out from blood loss.

I don't think there's any prioritization beyond "ARE YOU GOING TO DIE IN THE NEXT HOUR Y/N?"

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datamanc3r

#34 November 13, 2008, 06:00:45 am

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You really can't have a system like universal health care and NOT have enough doctors to take care of you. It's like eating cereal without milk. But I guess as long as you're getting treatment -- as long as no one is being denied treatment -- the waiting lines shouldn't really matter. Sure, you might be sitting there with a piece of tree in your ass, but at least you KNOW you'll get that treatment. Without having to pay exorbitant amounts of cash.

Unfortunately, the same goes for the illegals in southern Cali. And the people who show up for treatment and don't pay their medical bills.

I dunno. Is there a line that could be drawn between PROTECTING LIFE and PROTECTING US MONEY/BUSINESSES?

"I would be totally embarassed to write this, even as a fakepost. it's not funny except in how you seem to think it's good. look at all the redundancies, for fuck's sake. "insipid semantics, despicable mediocrity" ugh gross gross. I want to take a shower every time I read your prose." -Steel

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Mince Wobley

#35 November 13, 2008, 09:07:35 pm

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I think human life is more important than your money

Play Raimond Ex (if you haven't already)

I'll not TAKE ANYTHING you write like this seriously because it looks dumb

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datamanc3r

#36 November 15, 2008, 06:43:22 pm

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Obviously true.

But you need money to save human life.

I'm really trying to figure out whether the US could sustain the stress of UHC, and still amply give its services to patients who need them. For example, big hospitals could lobby for a certain amount of the money pool provided for by the tax payers. And local clinics and county hospitals would be screwed over, meaning that people may DIE as a result. Furthermore, because the government is essentially paying its doctors, there may be less incentive for doctors to take up the medical field (unless we also carry the cost of their tuition). This means that there will be less doctors for each of your clinics and hospitals and hundreds more to take care of. Hospitals could overflow, and even more people could DIE.

We already have health care programs for the monstrously poor, and the rest of the uninsured could still conceivably pay for health care, or work in a place that provides health benefits. If (substantial) health care is practically available to everyone already, setting up UHC would be unnecessary and actually KILL MORE PEOPLE. In the end, to ensure substantial health care for everyone, perhaps it is best to simply broaden the criteria of our current health care programs to care for more people.

"I would be totally embarassed to write this, even as a fakepost. it's not funny except in how you seem to think it's good. look at all the redundancies, for fuck's sake. "insipid semantics, despicable mediocrity" ugh gross gross. I want to take a shower every time I read your prose." -Steel

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Barack Obama

#37 November 16, 2008, 12:28:49 am

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Quote from: Juris on November 15, 2008, 06:43:22 pm

the rest of the uninsured could still conceivably pay for health care

no they can't.
Uninsured people regularly go bankrupt over having to go to the hospital.

Quote

Furthermore, because the government is essentially paying its doctors, there may be less incentive for doctors to take up the medical field (unless we also carry the cost of their tuition).

Which is why higher education ought to be free as well!

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